dont bother trying to explain McIlorum to a saints fan, as long as Roby plays for them they will always right him off. the fact the only thing Roby does better is scoot and kick is irrelevant.

Its not just scoot and kick that Roby does better, he is a lot more creative and gets through ore work defensively than McIlorum. Stats from this season show that Roby has played 12 less games, yet has only made 5 less metres, 11 try assists to McIlorum's 3, almost doubled his offloads, given away far less penalties, and Roby averages 35 tackles per game and 1 miss to McIlorum's 25 per game and 4 misses average.

It may be my biased opinion, but Roby is by far a better all round hooker than McIlorum. McIlorum is fiery and has aggression which I like and wouldnt deny he was a very good player, but to say he is as good as Roby (or that there is only scooting and kicking where Roby is better) is a bit of a joke imo. I would also class Lunt as better than McIlorum currently but that is again just my opinion

Tomkins
Charnley
Watkins
Hardaker
Hall
Widdop
Sinfield
Graham
Roby
Hill
S.Burgess
Hock
O'Loughlin

Mcllorum
Westwood
Mossop
G.Burgess

I am not 'righting' him off. I think he's a decent hooker but I would have Lunt ahead of him, or maybe even Houghton (but I think Houghton and Roby are too similar) for England - different thread I suppose.

I was just saying that the only reason I could see people giving for playing him was that McIlorum was more aggressive. Probably true, but I'm not sure why that means he should start.

Roby is a better defender and is less likely to give away penalties or get sent off. Why should it count against Roby that McIlorum hits a little bit harder than him?

If McIlorum doesn't start then I don't see the point of having him on the bench. I can understand people thinking it better to have him on from the start to get in Australian forwards faces but the starting pack that we'll be sending out will have plenty of mongrel in them without McIlorum. I'd personally prefer Roby's all round game from the off. If he needs spelling Sinfield can have a run from 9 and go with Chase off the bench.

Tomkins
Charnley
Watkins
Ablett
Hall
Widdop
Sinfield
Graham
Roby
Hill
S Burgess
Westwood
O'Loughlin

Hock
G Burgess
Mossop
Chase

What he said.

he scoots a hell of a lot more than McIlorum so really he should have better stats in all those areas, put Tomkins and Roby in the same team and roby would start to effect sam stats (in superleague). Can't measure the damage he does in defense either.

lunt and roby are effectively the same player but lunt passes out of the ruck a bit more, its been proven that if roby doesn't have a pack winning the ruck he becomes ineffective and we aren't going to be dominating the ruck against the Aussies

Neither Roby nor McIlorum should be on the bench, Niether are impact hookers. Whichever starts plays the 80 or interchanges with Burrow. For the first game against Australia I would go

Tomkins
Charnley
Watkins
Cudjoe
Hall
Chase
Sinfield
Graham
Roby
Hill
Westwood
S Burgess
O’Loughlin

G Burgess
Mossop
Ablett
Widdop

For the Ireland game which we should win easily i would give Briscoe, Hardaker Burrow, Farrell, Tom Burgess a game and rest Hall, Tomkins, S Burgess, Chase, O’Loughlin,

The Fiji game should be a real test, but one we should come through, I would try

Tomkins
Hardaker
Watkins
Cudjoe
Hall
Chase
Sinfield
Graham
Mcilorum
Mossop
Westwood
Farrell
S Burgess

Burrow
Ablett
G Burgess
Hock

To see what we looked like with Tomkins pushed forward and Hardaker moving back for a little while, See what we look like with Ablett/Watkins at centre/wing and it tests Hock against a big, rough tough pacific island side who will take no nonsense.

Then moving in to the knock out rounds, we can look at the combinations which worked best, we would have a QF against a team we would be expected to beat to bed in before the really big games start.

Roby is just a much much better player than McIlorum. He is better defensively, creatively, kicking, passing, and running. McIlorum is a tough aggressive hooker, but that aggression wont make up for the missed tackles, slower distribution, lost creativity and the kicking option we would lose.

Whenever I have watched England/GB and some of the dire performances we have put in, I have never noticed Roby stand out as being poor, he hasn’t looked out of place at international level at all.

I'm in total agreement. Roby is far superior to any other English hooker. To dismiss him as 'just a scooter' is rubbish.
He's a machine, his work rate is phenomenal.

maybe you should watch both of them again, wigan spread the ball much quicker than saints and its a lot quicker out of the ruck and he's far more accurate than Roby, the amount of times Wilkin or Lomax have had to do a skip to get to a wayward pass is ridiculous. like i said scooting, kicking he's better, defense he's also very good but only down low i have never seem him hit a forward and stop all he's momentum yet. Creativity is required from Roby as he is a main playmaker for saints McIlorum isn't he just knows when to hit a forward or a back.

Hes fantastic against beaten packs but we wont dominate the aus pack and he won't be as effective.

at some time you will need to watch a game without your cherry and white specs on, Roby is in a completely different class to McIlorum, The only thing McIlorum has on Roby is size and aggression.

The only question mark I have ever had on Roby is the speed and accuracy of his pass from dummy half, compared with the slick operators from there (Cameron Smith being clearly the best), this lack of accuracy can really slow a team down. We can talk about defensive workload, aggression etc all day long but this key element of the dummy half play needs to be first class. Having said all of that, I still think Roby is the starting 9 for England

Yep, but Wigan fans will have none of it.