That is not necessarily the case. If you are languishing in the bottom of SL, any decent player you try and bring through will be tempted by the big bucks and success of a top team. Rovers and Cas have seen this happen to them recently. In theory it would work but SL isn't theory is it? The only way it will work is if you have the money to invest in your youth structures as well as money to keep you competitive and challenging for honours until the youth structures bare fruit.

Which players from HKR or Cas are now real game changers, real difference makers at a big club? Which players have come through the youth development structures at HKR or Cas and are now in the top 5/6/7 players at a big club? Which players have they lost who would take them from where they are now, to the next level?

Its silly to say that HKR and Cas are losing these players, they just aren’t producing them. Those two clubs keep all of their products, they aren’t putting together a squad challenging for trophies.

This ^^

Cas Tigers have and still invest heavily in our youth development. It hurts us when players like Jordan Thompson leave us. He will sign for Hull FC in November when he turns 23 and CT will not receive one penny for him. It sometimes makes me wonder why we bother.

But we are not talking about game changers and top class players are we? We are talking about good players who would create a good competitive squad in SL.

Recently Scott Taylor has moved to Wigan from Hull KR. Cas have a lot more. They have had quite a few of their youngsters leave to clubs like Hull FC. We will never know until a few years time whether these players would be top class. How many sides have developed a player who has become a top player straight away? It takes time for players to become top players at their clubs baring a few exceptions (Sam Tomkins etc). The problem Cas have had is that their promising talent have left as soon as the lure of a better pay day has arisen.


Its no good having a good academy if you just sign the best from other clubs.

But that is the point, Leeds, St’s, Wigan etc aren’t building squads on players they are signing from elsewhere, there success is based on the players they are bringing through at Leeds its Mcguire, Sinfield, Burrow, Watkins, Hall, at Wigan its Tomkins, Farrell, MciLorum, Hansen, O’loughlin, at Saints its Roby, Lomax, Wellens, etc.

At the ‘big 3’ there is a grand total of 1 HKR or Cas developed players. Scott Taylor.

Players aren’t being picked off by the bigger clubs, HKR (especially) and Cas aren’t producing top class players and nowhere near the level of other clubs. The reason HKR and Cas can’t invest in their youngsters and grow to challenge isn’t because these youngsters are being bought off by the bigger clubs, its because they aren’t producing sufficient numbers, of sufficient quality. In fact there are more Leeds/Saints/Wigan youngsters playing for HKR/Cas than the other way around.

Your first reply was one of the thickest I've read on here in a long while and that's saying something. Your latest response doesn't even make sense. Good all round contribution well done.

The problem we have at Cas is the fact we have the constant poaching of players from Hull FC & Huddersfield, our team is manly made up of players from our academy, so it cant be that bad we have a player in Thompson brought through the system, only to be poached away by Hull FC, it wont be announced yet there waiting for his 23rd birthday, as it will be cheaper, just like they did with Arundel, last season.

We have a young player in Milner, who captain the academy against the Aussies, then we have Clark, a player who is constantly being linked with Warrington, Leeds, & other clubs, our pack is made up with other players from the academy , the forwards Hubby, Boyle, Holmes, Thompson, Massey, Walker, then Fleming, & Martin, just breaking through, Milner & Clark at hooker, in the backs we have Clare, Owen & Shenton, that's 13 players who have broke into the first team.

We have other youth players making there money at new clubs, there is more Cas lads in the Hull FC team, than there is Hull players, but there given a 2, it's rubbish.

This new document is nothing more than a twisted look at the RL's academy system, there isn't many clubs who provide RL with more players than Cas, we wont be that fare behind Leeds, Wigan, & Saints, when it comes to what counts, & that's bringing young local players through your academy to play in the SL, or the Championship, but looking at this document it seems to suit the RFL purpose better, when it comes to choosing the next 12 teams to feature in the 2015 SL, it makes you wonder who they use to comply all these great ideas, & why the top 12 wouldn't be the right way to go????.

Its ok for you as a Leeds fan as Leeds as a club have multiple income streams to finance the youth setup as well as spend to near enough the full cap. The likes of Hull KR and Cas don't. If players are leaving these clubs for more money then they are never going to get to the heights of Leeds and Wigan are they? If the likes of Cas and Hull KR can keep their own locally produced players then they will be competitive in SL. Yesterday Hull KR played 6 homegrown players in their team which in 5 years of having an academy is good going. Cas probably played even more than that. The whole point I'm trying to make is that as long as you are bringing players through, it doesn't matter whether they get the touchy feely bits on the way to becoming a first team SL player.

I for one am proud with the strides Hull KR are making on the youth front and it is a hell of a lot better than pre 2007. While I admit that the models at Leeds and Wigan are the ones to strive for, it takes a hell of a long time. If you are basing success and whether a team should be in SL on the academy and its graduates, then i'm afraid SL would have to go down to probably 5 teams.

Try stepping down from your ivory tower and look at things from other clubs supporters point of view.

Well done to us here in the Midlands

that didnt happen by magic. But hardwork and Skill Yet they have the funds to sign Neville Costigan, or Willie Mason, Rangi Chase, These players arent leaving for more money. They arent being produced. Hull KR and Cas Can keep their own locally produced players,This wont make them competitive in SL. It wont make them competitive in SL because they don’t put enough time, effort, money or skill into those players whilst they are in the academy. So the don’t produce the quality, or quantity of other clubs. no, it isnt. Its pretty p1sspoor to be honest, and the reasons why HKR are so poor at bringing home grown players through is highlighted in this report.
Having the right staff, and the right amount of them isn’t a touchy-feely bit. Having access to facilities which are good enough isn’t a touchy-feely bit. Hull KR's faillings in these areas are having an adverse effect on the players progression.
you shouldnt be. Hull KR's progress has got them to a stage where they are among the 2 worst in SL, where they youth development, lack of investment in it is having an adverse effect on the progression of the players with in it. That is a disgrace.
im not seeing a point of view. Im seeing excuses. Im seeing the same excuses from the same clubs we saw excuses from 5 years ago.

Sorry but to do down our youth system at cas is incredibly ignorant. It's the only thing keeping the club going ffs !!!! Not many clubs have the record we do over the last few years than us. In either quantity or standard we more than pull our weight.... Every side in SL would have Daz Clark starting 17.

A lot of your income streams wouldn't have been there if it wasn't for assets which you own. Hull KR and a lot of other clubs don't have that luxury.


What bit are you not getting? Clubs sign these players to be competitive. If you take away all the overseas signings Leeds have made over the years, do you really think they would be where they are now?


So Scott Taylor, Joe Arundel, Joe Westerman etc.. are figments of our imaginations?


In your opinion. There is no conclusive evidence of this at all.


Once again Smokey, its a matter of opinion. How many 1st team regulars has Leeds produced in the last 5 years?


And where is the evidence to back this up? Have you spoken to players who have been in our academy? Have you investigated and proved that this is the case?


According to the report. As I have said, Leeds and Wigan models are what every team should strive for but I don't think for one moment Hull KR would be in existence if they ploughed all their money into achieving those models quickly. They would be bottom of SL and support would just dwindle away.



You have basically just proved my point about you being in an ivory tower. Chucking money at an academy is not going to bring supporters in or keep the ones we have coming back. A competitive team is. A balance has been struck and I trust the club to do whats best for itself and its supporters.

again, those assets arent owned by magic nor those income streams. They exist because of hard-work and skill.
Delaney,Kylie and Moon? Yeah, pretty close.

Wigans 4th rotation prop, Hulls 3rd choice centre, and Joe Bloody Westerman. These players are average players. They have moved to a different club, thats all, its not evidence of some wide-scale pillaging, nor more than the fact Jordan Tansey players for Cas means Cas are stealing all Leeds youngsters, or that Craig Hall and Josh Hodgson playing for Hull KR are Hull KR stealing all of Hull's youngsters.

except the fact that neither Hull KR nor Cas have produced the quality of quantity of player needed to challenge (we know these players don't exist) and we know the reasons why, the RFL have kindly told us.

BJB, Hall, Watkins, Clarkson, McShane, Ward, Singleton, Sutcliffe, Ward,
the RFL have told us
Chucking money at an expensive academy took leeds from c7k crowds in 1996, to winning the league with a home-grown squad with crowds of c17k in 2004.

Not seeing the point of this. Nice facilities & education programs get you a higher rating than developing your own juniors into SL players? What are academies for?

Arundel is not yet 23, So its not the same.