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FORUMS > The Virtual Terrace > England 17 at this point. |
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| Brough has to be in the halves. It concerns me that the best halfback in our competition won't get picked because Golden Boy has been made captain. Got a lot of respect for Kev, but no player's selection should ever be guaranteed (especially if he's not the best at the time) and it kind of puts the thought in the back of your mind that he picks up a bit of a knock before the WC to force McNamara to make the selection (which is a horrible thing to think).
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| I don't understand this obsession that some have with playing Roby off the bench? I think we need an extra forward on the bench. Roby is an 80min hooker, he hasn't played off the bench for a number of years so why do that now? IMO McIlorum isn't good enough for England; Lunt and Houghton are better players because they offer far more.
I think these are possible selections:
FB: Tomkins/Hardaker/Lomax
Wings: Hall/Charnley/Briscoe
Centres: Watkins/Reed/Cudjoe
HB: Widdop/Myler/Sinfield/Brough/Chase/Smith/McGuire
Prop: Graham/S Burgess/G Burgess/Hill/Crabtree/L Burgess/Walmsley (outside chance possibly)
Hooker: Roby/Houghton/Lunt
SR: Farrell/Hock/Westwood/Ferres
LF: O'Loughlin
I'd go:
1. Tomkins
2. Hall
3. Reed
4. Watkins
5. Charnley
6. Widdop
7. Brough
8. Graham
9. Roby
10. S Burgess
11. Farrell
12. Westwood (although I think he hasn't been great this season, so far)
13. O'Loughlin
14. G Burgess
15. Hill
16. Crabtree/Ellis
17. Hock
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fonds noir/Buzz Lightyear.gif :fonds noir/Buzz Lightyear.gif |
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| If they're fit, S+B Burgess, Graham and Ellis can be as good as any Australians. Hock is - literally - a wildcard, who if he could play to his best would be a revelation as well. The only issue I have with some selections is Sam at prop - an absolute waste of a world class second row.
The other wildcard is somehow Tom Burgess coming in and being as good as George - unlikely but still possible. I'd also add that Luke went from being barely in Souths' first team to first choice starting prop last year - he's a handy player, although if someone else was picked ahead of him I wouldn't be too worried.
In the backs our best hope is that our outside backs can hold their own - anyone dreaming that they're likely to dominate Australia is crazy - but hopefully with the likes of Watkins, Hall, Reed, Briscoe we can find a combination that works and at least not get physically flattened..
...which brings us to 1, 6, 7 and 9.
...the only certainty would be Tomkins, and whilst I can understand the idea of the more robust Hardaker, his almost complete lack of a passing game would rule him out of fullback for me, so I'd keep Tomkins there whilst trying to make sure as many players as possible run interference on high kicks.
We have nobody close to Cameron Smith at hooker. Roby at his best is very good, but after him I'd be tempted to go for Lunt - a more traditional hooker with a rugby brain. Not looking for dominance, but someone who can keep their head and make the right choices from dummy half.
6/7 is a nightmare. Has been for years. We can all make claims and counter-claims for Widdopp, Sinfield, Chase, Brough etc, but what England needs is for two or more of these guys to absolutely demand selection in the same way George Burgess is at prop. If not, I can't blame McNamara for going with Sinfield as for all his faults (lack of running game, not the most devastating passer etc) he at least can act as the focal point of a side under pressure, and is a genuinely good captain.
What we can't do is go to extremes of trying to play some offload based game with no structure (which just leads to stupid turnovers), or a hyper-defensive game. We'll need to play to a good structure and move the ball around - something I haven't seen England/GB do very well against Australia since Sean Long got knocked in the head.
In the end I just want England to give Australia a tough game for 80 minutes. I've watched far too many thrashings to expect even that, but I still hope to one day see us beat them when it counts.
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| It's a shame Sinfield is captain, that way he has to be in the team. We surely have better scrum-halfs than him.
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| Quote: meast "if, and we all know it wont happen, the England team is picked on form then cudjoe,ferres,brough and lunt should all be in there.
however that's my club bias because these guys have been immense this season and have shown their rivals up in a lot of games.
but they wont be picked and we know why.'"
Fantastic post. I've never been a big fan of Cudjoe, but he was superb yesterday.
Lunt should be in the starting 17, I should edit my team. He's superb. I'd love to know Huddersfield & Leeds win record with/without him.
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| As someone who watches them both every week if I was picking a team tomorrow I would favour Lineham over Briscoe. I just think physically he is better suited to what the Aussies are going to throw at us. He is certainly the biggest winger we have available, he is good under the high ball and very strong in the tackle. It would be a gamble picking a guy with 1 season under his belt but I would like to see him get an opportunity, at least in the train on squad.
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| Tomkins
Charnley
Reed
Watkins
Hall
Widdop
Sinfield
Peacock (if he can be tempted out of retirement - Crabtree if not)
Roby
Graham
Ellis
Farrell
S Burgess
G Burgess
Crabtree (Mossop if Peacock stays retired)
Hock (Westwood if Hock isn't playing consistently)
Burrow
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27794.gif [b:1zy5cey6]"...To those people that wrote this team off...
to all those that criticised this team...
tonight's for you"
[/b:1zy5cey6]
[i:1zy5cey6]Sir Kevin Sinfield[/i:1zy5cey6]:27794.gif |
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| Tomkins
Briscoe
Cudjoe
Watkins
Hall
Widdop
Sinfield
Graham
Roby
G Burgess
Ellis
Farrell
S Burgess
Burrow
Westwood
Crabtree
Hill
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| It's good to see the England team finally have some selection issues, over who is better rather who on earth have we got. Sam Burgess and James Graham are the best all round forwards in team, in fact, Jammer should be given back the captaincy, the aggression he's shown down under would really set the right inspiration. Running S Burgess out wide would see him at his most destructive, so he needs to be second row/loose forward. However, O'Loughlin and Farrell are also quality forwards, the first is a great defender, the second has great movement and hands, to the point he really needs to be in the team.
Loose forward should be between Burgess and Farrell, I see where the Burgess and SBW comparison comes from, but Burgess - while more powerful - isn't as good a passer of the ball. Then going back to Farrell's movement and handling, he could really add a new dimension to England's attack. So the option could be to spell them both, or - even though he plays second row for Wigan - move Farrell into the loose forward position. Maybe, I'm seeing something that nobody else does, but he could be the sort of creative/less robust loose forward we haven't seen for a while.
To think a player of O'Loughlin's calibre could miss out, that says how far the team has progressed, and at least there is some quality to bring in if injuries occur. One thing I notice, watching England, the forwards get too caught up fighting for every last inch forward. If you watch the Aussie forwards, they're looking for that big initial contact, followed by a quick play the ball. This is what Jammer is so good at, and what gave England such a good start in the first four nations game in 2011. It's speed rathe than physicality England are lacking, in the forwards anyway.
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| Depends if youe picking it from your own personal thoughts or what the majority of RL fans/Media think.....personally as a Giants fan Lunt, Brough and Cudjoe would be shoe-ins - even the Leeds fans i were speaking to yesterday said we'd have to go some to find a better centre pair than Watkins and Cudjoe - Brough has proved time and again with Mcnamara in the stand just how good he is and Lunt is on fire at the moment, scoring and creating for fun.
Brett Ferres wouldnt be far away either but he's probably too far behind Farrell, Hock, and whoever Leeds are playing at 2nd row in the week leading up to the games.
1.Tomkins
2.Charnley
3.Cudjoe
4.Watkins
5.Hall
6.Widdop/Brough
7.Brough/Myler
8.Graham
9.Roby
10. one of the Burgess lads
11.Farrell
12.Ellis
13. another burgess
14.Crabtree
15.Lunt
16.Hill/Mossop
17.Westwood/Hock
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69484_1366994160.png :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_69484.png |
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| Tomkins, Charnley, Cudjoe, Watkins, Hall, Sinfield, Brough, Mossop, Roby, Graham, Westwood, Farrell, Sam Burgess. Subs: Lunt, Hock, George Burgess, Crabtree.
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| Cudjoe has improved beyond all recognition over the last few years, he should be given his chance to impress in the origin match. Watkins, Cudjoe and Reed are the best options we've had since Gleeson.
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| If I was picking the team it would be much different from the SMc team no doubt. I would go with
Tomkins
Charnley
Watkins
Atkins
Hall
Widdop
Brough
Morley
Roby
Graham
Westwood
Farrell
Sinfield
Lunt
Burgess (S)
Burgess (G)
Ellis
To be in the squad but
miss out, Hill, McIllrum, Crabree, Briscoe, O'Loughlin,
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| 1 - Tomkins
2 - Hall
3 - Cudjoe
4 - Watkins
5 - Charnley
6 - Brough
7 - Widdop
8 - Graham
9 - Roby
10 - S. Burgess
11 - Farrell
12 - Ellis
13 - O'Loughlin
14 - Lunt (or Burrow as he offers a completely different skill set)
15 - G. Burgess
16 - Hill
17 - Hock (or Westwood if he picks up his form)
Was undecided as to whether it was worth having 2 props on the bench as graham and sam burgess can put in the big minutes.
Honourable mentions to ferres, goulding, mcclorum and crabtree
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[quote="FlexWheeler":8f22o6ue]The extent of his coaching is ''BASH EM, JUST F*CKING BASH EM. HE'S LOW ON CONFIDENCE, BASH HIM''
He's a limited coach that won't last long term.[/quote:8f22o6ue]
....
[quote="rubber duckie":8f22o6ue]That would make Wigan strong favourites then. With Ratchford at FB and Patton with Cronk in the halves, I think we'll do very well without Sam.[/quote:8f22o6ue]: |
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| Tomkins
Charnley
Watkins
Reed
Hall
Widdop
Brough
Graham
Roby
Crabtree
Westwood
Sam Burgess
O'loughlin
Farrell
George Burgess
Ellis
McIlorum
Ellis must prove his worth in the 2nd half of the season however!
Same with Roby.
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