FORUMS > The Virtual Terrace > Are clubs and the game really better now than pre-SL? |
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47753_1430033772.jpg JOHN THE REDBOY I have been a rovers fan all my life and my grandkids are as well:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_47753.jpg |
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| I have watch rugby league for 45 years or more and i have loved every minute but apart from the stars of yesterday I don't want to go back to watching the old games, give me super and summer rugby league all the time thanks ![DROOL icon_biggrin.gifROOL:](images/smilies//eusa_drool.gif)
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| Quote: Paul Thexton "what's the quantifiable measure to apply the comparison to, though? even spread of championship/cup winners? national side success rate? crowd levels (peaks & troughs, as opposed to averages?)? number of clubs going bust/in to administration?
To try and say whether RL is "better" during any particular era is entirely subjective and a matter of your own opinion, which would be heavily influenced by what you deem to be 'better'. '"
Of course it's subjective. As are any number of other questions we ask in life the answers to which depend entirely on opinion - yet, decisions are still made (often on the strength of one person's rhetoric above another's.)
Quote: Paul Thexton "Surely a better question to be asked would be
Aren't you just replacing one subjective question with another? In any case it doesn't automatically follow that increased competitiveness (which is measured, not to mention agreed upon, how?) will bestow untold benefits on the sport. It sounds plausible. But there are any number of additional factors (economic, training, development etc.) that all need to fall into line as well.
Quote: Paul Thexton "An additional question could be
Was the game "commercially successful" when were pulling 100,000 fans into Odsal? Serious question, BTW.
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| Quote: Asgardian13 "Overall the playing standards are now higher than I recall ...'"
What "standards" are you judging though?
Again, we are certainly bigger and stronger. Probably fitter. But insofar as specialised skills are concerned (which were an [iessential facet[/i of the game) modern players are entirely lacking.
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4.jpg Sian: Oh that's a very pretty plane, it's all pink and purply
Thecko: And it says Wizz on it
[url=http://www.myspace.com/thecko:1apcmlzd]-myspace-[/url:1apcmlzd] _ [url=http://www.thecko.co.uk/photos/:1apcmlzd]-Various Photos-[/url:1apcmlzd] _ [url=http://www.thecko.co.uk/blog/:1apcmlzd]-Blog-[/url:1apcmlzd] _ [url=http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/registry/registry.html/ref=w_h_em-si-html_viewall/202-2367638-0731855?id=HI88OEDMA7CN:1apcmlzd]amazon wishlist (go on, you know you wanna buy me stuff)[/url:1apcmlzd]:4.jpg |
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| Quote: Mugwump "Was the game "commercially successful" when were pulling 100,000 fans into Odsal? Serious question, BTW.'"
Having been born in 1981 I honestly couldn't answer that question ![Smile icon_smile.gif](images/smilies//icon_smile.gif) What I would say is that that was one game in the entire season, how were the rest of the crowds at those times? What was the annual turnover of the RFL member clubs? Were any of those clubs actually profitable, or did they all rely on financial backers to bankroll the operation? When you're looking at historical accounting records, should the sums involved be adjusted for inflation, or should they be presented directly from source, with accompanying national average wages for the periods being compared? (edit: maybe also include the relevant periods' unemployment figures as a % of the available workforce)
To me commercial success and crowd figures don't tie up hand in hand, of course higher support gives you the opportunity to turn over more money and reap higher profits, but it doesn't guarantee it.
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Club Coach | 4062 | ![](images/sitelogos/fullsize/21.png) |
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Darlings of Super League: |
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| Quote: Mugwump "What "standards" are you judging though?
Again, we are certainly bigger and stronger. Probably fitter. But insofar as specialised skills are concerned (which were an [iessential facet[/i of the game) modern players are entirely lacking.'"
[iEntirely[/i lacking?
So there is entirely no specialisation between the game played by, say, Lee Briers and Gareth Ellis? What about Sam Tomkins and Gareth Hock? Could Wigan interchange them during the game?
Some of your earlier posts made a lot of sense, this 'no specialisation' nonsense is entirely that however.
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18919_1341147656.jpg [quote="King Monkey":30st820n]Maybe a spell in prison would do Graham good.
At least he'd lose his virginity.[/quote:30st820n]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_18919.jpg |
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| Quote: FearTheVee "Interesting example - I would argue the opposite, that Hanley would be less effective (rather than more) in today's game.'"
I doubt Hanly would be a LF in tdays game, but I reckon he'd be a revelation at centre or SO today.
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| Quote: FearTheVee "Interesting example - I would argue the opposite, that Hanley would be less effective (rather than more) in today's game.'"
Hanley is the finest British rugby player I have had the privilege to watch live and ranks up alongside Wally Lewis and Andrew Johns as one of the best players of the last 30 years or so
But it is an interesting question about how effective he would be in the modern game. He was almost the ‘prototype’ modern League player with immense athletic ability and talent but I think it is fair to say that this differentiator would be less now that all the players are that bit stronger and faster. Also, the game has changed so much – one of the most famous of Hanley’s tries was the length of the field effort down the right wing for Bradford beating man after man on the way. But I have to say, I don’t think he could score that try if it was today as the whole team now scrambles in defence much better (partly due to extra conditioning, partly better coaching)
However, having said that, Hanley would still be a great. He had already changed his game when he played for Leeds and his work rate was exceptional. He would bring that to SL plus a unique ability to beat the tackle. I think he would definitely be a loose forward in the modern game and he would be a great one
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193.jpg Northampton RL....details here: //www.northamptonrl.co.uk:193.jpg |
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| Quote: Mugwump " But insofar as specialised skills are concerned (which were an [iessential facet[/i of the game) modern players are entirely lacking.'"
As a coach, trust me: skill levels are far higher than they have ever been.
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| Quote: Richie "As a coach, trust me
So can you give us a brief outline of your coaching methods from say 1932, 1948, 1953, 1967, 1974, 1988, 1995.....
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193.jpg Northampton RL....details here: //www.northamptonrl.co.uk:193.jpg |
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| Quote: Mr Dog "So can you give us a brief outline of your coaching methods from say 1932, 1948, 1953, 1967, 1974, 1988, 1995.....'"
What's the relevance of my, or anyone's, coaching methods?
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9005.jpg kcab sfrawdder
Luck is a combination of preparation and opportunity
Just to avoid confusion Starbug is the username of Steven Pike
SOMEBODY SAID that it couldn’t be done
But he with a chuckle replied
That “maybe it couldn’t,” but he would be one
Who wouldn’t say so till he’d tried.
So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin
On his face. If he worried he hid it.
He started to sing as he tackled the thing
That couldn’t be done, and he did it!:9005.jpg |
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| Quote: Richie "What's the relevance of my, or anyone's, coaching methods?'"
It isn't the method he is querying , it's how you are comparing them to the past he is questioning
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193.jpg Northampton RL....details here: //www.northamptonrl.co.uk:193.jpg |
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| Quote: Starbug "It isn't the method he is querying , it's how you are comparing them to the past he is questioning'"
Watching the game, or footage of the game from ye olden dayes.
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9005.jpg kcab sfrawdder
Luck is a combination of preparation and opportunity
Just to avoid confusion Starbug is the username of Steven Pike
SOMEBODY SAID that it couldn’t be done
But he with a chuckle replied
That “maybe it couldn’t,” but he would be one
Who wouldn’t say so till he’d tried.
So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin
On his face. If he worried he hid it.
He started to sing as he tackled the thing
That couldn’t be done, and he did it!:9005.jpg |
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| Quote: Richie "Watching the game, or footage of the game from ye olden dayes.'"
So its your opinion as a ' viewer ' rather than a coach
I am also a RL coach , as I am sure are many others on these boards
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193.jpg Northampton RL....details here: //www.northamptonrl.co.uk:193.jpg |
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| Quote: Starbug "So its your opinion as a ' viewer ' rather than a coach
I am also a RL coach , as I am sure are many others on these boards'"
As a viewer of ye oldene dayes and a coach and viewer of the modern day.
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7.gif :7.gif |
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| Quote: Richie "As a coach, trust me
Skill levels are higher in facets of the game we've chosen to concentrate on. So dropped into a scrum in the sixties Keiron Cunningham would be right up at (or near) the top in terms of size, power, fitness etc. But given the rules of the game which dictated a high degree of specialisation (requiring years of experience to master) he'd be a weakness. In those days hookers were fundamental to keeping possession of the ball. More than one team lost a Challenge Cup Final because it couldn't field an experienced hooker. Sure, with ball in hand Cunningham would be a real handful. But you could imagine a clever number seven such as Murphy having an absolute field day kicking the ball into touch knowing full well his total lack of scrummaging skill would result in scrum after scrum being lost.
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