I used to say GB before club but that was in a bygone era when players were picked on form rather than reputation, at the moment the England team is more or less picked regardless of form and only changes due to injuries. We will never compete with the Aussies/Kiwis until we build an England squad based on form, the England nights is a good idea to increase the international player pool, but as always come competition time the usual suspects will be in the national team again getting beat and whinging they paly to much rugby. Its time for a clear out we are two years away from the world cup and as such should be bringing in the players that will be the backbone of that squad not this current batch of nearly men, on the subject of cetral contracts I could not disagree more that they are needed all that would happen is the usual suspects would be guaranteed their place no matter how bad they play in the England shirt. I will go back to country first when the national team is picked on merit and form not on who they play for or because they have always played.

Club first for me, because the RFL have modelled the game towards club first and country a distant second. The season is to long for our international players, season starts in Winter and finishes in the autumn.
Too many overseas players means we can,t develop home grown players into future internationals.
Also our international past and present coach during super league is of abysmal standard, which means players play at a lower standard than there club form.

I'm just happy with this balance. Club game as the bread and butter, national game as a nice extra.

Seeing as England are never going to play Wigan in a competitive match I don't understand why it has to be either, or.

Who said it did?
It's a case of which one people prefer first. They may not play each other, but they may play at the same time. And fans will only have so much money and emotion to invest.

I used to be country before club everytime. I loved the ashes in the early noughties and I hated the aussies. Since 2008 the England team have just not given me anything to get passionate about, I want to be passionate about it but I just can't... I don't see enough from them... then the England fans booing our own players just topped it off for me. I am going to the four nations matches and I will probably be up for it when I get there... but untill England fans stop booing our players and untill the players play with some passion like Sculthorpe and Faz used to... I don't want to put my country before my club.

I do want this to change though, can't see it anytime soon though.

Got to say I'm club. Mainly down to the fact that there are more matches etc. But I'm more than happy to pull out my England jersey and go to watch the internationals when they are being played.

The atmosphere at international games needs to be improved. I know it's difficult as fans are coming from different clubs but a couple of chants/songs and also all the fans supporting all the players might help

Speaking of which, got myself a nice 1995 England top on ebay tonight for a tenner! I'll be donning that at Wembley!

When was the last time England and say Wigan played at the same time?
I live in Catalonia but I'll be driving up to France to watch England in the autumn and I'll be at Wembley on November 5th.

I'm eyeing up a signed one from the Exiles game

Club for me the reasons macnamara and the fact that the Rfl are standing buy and watching the demise of the lower leagues .shame on them !!

Joe , just asking , what dream is it we are now ' living ' ?

I disagree. If a venue is unattractive in terms of the event, people won't go. Not everything has to sell out to show you could get more elsewhere. Otherwise why would we go to Wembley?


True. Could the RFL make more noise about the issues though?

 
You do realise that the list isn't of MY reasons (I'm country before club)? It's a summary of everyone's reasons I've been reading.
There are people that are so disillusioned with the RFL that they don't want to support their events, including the international set-up. It's not a case of a Championship player being good enough for England.


No it doesn't.
Mid-season internationals are on on the same weekend as SL.
End of season internationals are on the same days that amateur teams play.

People are forced to make a choice.


Because their club loyalties by far oversight their country loyalties as there I'd by far more emphasis on SL than internationals. Until this changes, too many people will do the things that spoil it for those that DO actually support their country and the people playing for it.


But without enough games to prove himself, many won't get the chance to see the results of his work.


But Union have had a big enough international programme to get used to these players. And I disagree that we know now more than ever. There are more games on TV now, but the audience is smaller as Premier Sport isn't a very big station. There used to be more games on Sky than there is now.


I disagree with this. I think it's more to do with other sports putting emphasis on international sport and the media following suit. We don't, so why should the fans and media care?

I do appreciate your summary of expressed opinions, and I think there's a lot of insight here.

There's some odd ones, though. Nobody on the planet thinks football or union are currently administered well, but that never stops fans supporting England.

Totally agree about the dearth of quality internationals, and the potential value of England as a brand everyone can get behind to bring new people, in Newcastle or Swindon or Plymouth, into a real 'supporters' relationship with the game.

But. Only 3 teams are at the highest level, so what do we do? Spend millions on a 10 year programme to make the 5 nations into an equitable competition, SL franchises is Dublin, Glasgow and Cardiff?

I said we stop for international competitions, which we do. Union keeps it's club game running through the 6 nations and autumn internationals. Footy stops even for friendlies.

Recent internationals have been held in Leigh, Doncaster and Headingley. Would you really suggest fans are not buying out all the tickets there because the grounds aren't good enough?

I think Emgland and international RL in general, are massively important, and this discussion is a useful vehicle, even if I don't agree with every point muted...!