So, as you are refusing to acknowledge the positives of the Welsh franchise as a whole, im guessing your attitude will be the same to the negatives? And as such, this Welsh franchise as 'W Crusaders' have never been bust, never gone into administration, never had visa problems with any of their players and you wont be bringing those negatives up then?

I have never suggested they had , find me a link if you like

Well, no, they havent even done that apparently. They are a completely new business, new club, and as such have done nothing, either positive or negative.


Time will tell,

Seems odd, and very telling that you are crediting Hull KR with something they are yet to, and may not do, Yet finding odd and meaningless distinctions to take away from what Crusaders have done

I hadnt suggested you had, notice the tense.

I just wanted to be clear that you will not, in any way, positive or negative, lump the Celtic Crusaders, Crusaders and 'W Crusaders' together as one club, following your logic they are three completely distinct and separate clubs and that you wouldnt wish to put any of the positives or negatives of any one of the clubs onto the other.

Just to make sure you are being consistent for once.


Id also ask, what has stopped Hull KR 'plugging the gap' with converted 16/17/18 year old union players? If Crusaders can do it, why couldnt HKR?

No problem , but even you must admit it is getting bit confusing , maybe you will reply to others when they lump them all together positively , just to be consistent

This is your assertion not mine. I personally think it would be overly simplistic to look at them as a brand new club, or as one club throughout.

They are where they are now, because of where they were and what they did before. Positive and Negative. It is a little silly to criticise this incarnation for the Visa issue, but not for the problems of this off-season. Similarly it would be overly kind to credit this incarnation with giving players like Elliot Kear a debut, but it would be ridiculous to not credit them with continuing to use and bring in that type of player.

People like you, love to over simplify because it allows you to build your straw men and point out contradiction and hypocrisy where there is none.

HKR now run scholarship and academy similar to other SL clubs [ one of their players recently got selected for the England/GB squad ] before 2007 they didn't , as you well know it takes several years to see these systems near fruit

Just out of interest are the Welsh/Wrexham Crusaders running scholarship/academies in North Wales ? , if so we should see them start to produce players in 5/6 years time

Who are ' they ' exactly ?

Owners ?

Players ?

Coaches ?

Fans ?

Or do you just mean a name ?

So how many actual 1 st team games have these players ' plugged ' ?

Thats lovely, doesnt seem to address anything i put, but its lovely all the same.

Regardless, as we have seen, some SL clubs pay nothing but lip service to youth development, and whilst they may run scholarships and academies, their youth development is pitiful and commitment to young british players poor. Why do you assume, with evidence to the contrary and nothing in favour, that Hull KR will be different?

Yes they do, and they are producing players now, they are just 'in the main' coming from different areas. And there is nothing wrong with that. Leeds have done it with Rory Kettlewell, Saints with Dan Brotherton. It just seems you need to criticise it because some of your 'favoured' clubs have failed in this respect and it counters a lot of their excuses.

all of the above They are what makes Crusaders RL,

Well no, that would be ridiculous as the one thing they definitely have changed is their name.

Nice attempt at avoidance though.

73

So which actual perssonel have been involved with all the incarnations ?

The name ' Crusaders ' which has been the only constant between the three

What evidence to the contrary , they have just had a player selected for an International squad , how many Leeds players made the same squad ?

Do they , can youprovide a link ?

How many 1 st team games have these players played ?

Can you provide a link to this thanks ?