That is the position we are in and [iwe are [/idoing something about it. My point is that it's 10x harder for a Championship club to make improvements as they don't get a guaranteed £1.5M from Sky every year. With no (or very little) Sky cash for the 15 years since SL started, we have at least built a new grandstand. Several SL clubs don't seem to have done [ianything[/i in that time.

What planet are you on? A few hundred grand buys sod all these days. Calderdale Council had to spend around £5,000,000 to FINISH OFF our new stand, a stand which was already built.

its taken us 30 years to get our average crowds anywhere near respectable,to suggest barrow will do it in 1 or 2 is plain daft IMO,if they do then good luck them i say,i wasn't giving advice,just offering an opinion on the topic,my apologies

Quote: Fax Machine "What planet are you on? A few hundred grand buys sod all these days. Calderdale Council had to spend around £5,000,000 to FINISH OFF our new stand, a stand which was already built.'" My 'few hundred grand' figure was relating to ... [i"Regarding Craven Park (again), I posted earlier that 3 things would definitely have to be sorted before SL could be contemplated. 1. Toilets 2. Floodlights 3. Refreshment outlets"[/i I stand by that figure. New lights = £200K, Toilets £100K tops, Refreshment/bar outlets £200K tops. About £500K would probably cover it. If Calderdale Council have spent an EXTRA £5M to finish off The Shay's new stand then if I was a tax payer I would feel seriously ripped-off. I knows it's about 6 years old, but the 14,000 seater Halliwell Jones only cost £6.8M - www.barr.co.uk/brochures/2008/ba ... tfolio.pdf.

Quote: Fax Machine "What planet are you on? A few hundred grand buys sod all these days. Calderdale Council had to spend around £5,000,000 to FINISH OFF our new stand, a stand which was already built.'" My 'few hundred grand' figure was relating to ... [i"Regarding Craven Park (again), I posted earlier that 3 things would definitely have to be sorted before SL could be contemplated. 1. Toilets 2. Floodlights 3. Refreshment outlets"[/i I stand by that figure. New lights = £200K, Toilets £100K tops, Refreshment/bar outlets £200K tops. About £500K would probably cover it. If Calderdale Council have spent an EXTRA £5M to finish off The Shay's new stand then if I was a tax payer I would feel seriously ripped-off. I knows it's about 6 years old, but the 14,000 seater Halliwell Jones only cost £6.8M - www.barr.co.uk/brochures/2008/ba ... tfolio.pdf.

Quote: SRC "My 'few hundred grand' figure was relating to ... [i"Regarding Craven Park (again), I posted earlier that 3 things would definitely have to be sorted before SL could be contemplated. 1. Toilets 2. Floodlights 3. Refreshment outlets"[/i I stand by that figure. New lights The £6.8M figure cant be right. Possibly this is what Warrington paid for the stadium, if tesco were desperate for a superstore, as these were built together on the same site. But thats nowhere near what the stadium would cost to build. Keepmoat stadium 15000 £32M en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keepmoat_Stadium Leigh £17.5M en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leigh_Sports_Village Leeds new stand behind the posts £7M www.therhinos.co.uk/club/stadium/index.php

Quote: SRC "My 'few hundred grand' figure was relating to ... [i"Regarding Craven Park (again), I posted earlier that 3 things would definitely have to be sorted before SL could be contemplated. 1. Toilets 2. Floodlights 3. Refreshment outlets"[/i I stand by that figure. New lights The £6.8M figure cant be right. Possibly this is what Warrington paid for the stadium, if tesco were desperate for a superstore, as these were built together on the same site. But thats nowhere near what the stadium would cost to build. Keepmoat stadium 15000 £32M en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keepmoat_Stadium Leigh £17.5M en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leigh_Sports_Village Leeds new stand behind the posts £7M www.therhinos.co.uk/club/stadium/index.php

Facilities
Teams will get one point for having a stadium with a capacity of 12,000 or more. Craven Park holds 7,600
Another point will be awarded if the ground meets the standards of a premier competition in the 21st century.[9] Nope...not even with 500k spent on it
ATTENDANCES
A point will be awarded to clubs with an average attendance of around 10,000 spectators. Another point will be awarded if stadiums are operating at 40 per cent capacity.[9] Nope to 10k.....and 3k isn't your current average either

Finances
Teams will receive a point if they are solvent. Another point will be awarded if their turnover is more than £4 million.[9] You get your first point here AS I BELIEVE YOU ARE SOLVENT
Player strength
Teams earn one point if they are considered to have made a contribution to the competition - that means averaging a place in the top eight over each of the last three seasons. Another point is available to clubs who make a contribution to home-grown player development. That means at least eight members of a first-team squad of 25 should be discovered, trained and developed in the team's home country (United Kingdom or France).[9] Suspect you would get 2 points here

Salary cap
One point is on offer to teams who have not committed a major breach of the salary cap in the last three seasons.[9] Good boys...1 point
Geographical expansion
The final point goes to clubs who do not have another rugby league club within a 20-mile radius.[9]
Nil Point

So, even with 500k spent on Craven Park, you are looking at 4 points and that only if the RFL accept your good season last year as a top 8 finish. If so, you are in the same boat as these teams:
Castleford Tigers-Catalans Dragons-Celtic Crusaders-Harlequins-Hull KR-Huddersfield Giants -Salford City Reds-Wakefield Trinity Wildcats....
Now, with Huddersfield having a nice stadium and doing well this year, they may well step up to a b licence next time and The Bulls may drop down......but let's compare Barrow to the rest. Catalans and Quins tick the expansion box...as do the Wrexham Crusaders, so it's unlikely that they would make way...HKR are building things at Caravan park, so will probably be OK as well, leaving Wakey, Castleford and Salford to maybe be replaced by teams from outside the SL. Widnes have the ground, the fanbase to build on and a very wealthy backer....and should be first choice.....so which of the three above do you believe Barrow are best placed to replace? All 3 have been warned that their stadiums are an issue....but all 3 hold more than Craven Park........I doubt very much a 4 point score would replace another 4 point score......so to answer the OP......Barrow aren't ready yet and I honestly think that even the promise of 4.5 mil over 3 years wouldn't be enough....look at quins FFS.....we are shipping 1.5 mil a year on top of the 1.5 we get from SKY........
Barrow are a great club, with a great history, but there is no way they are ready for the top league.....it could well ruin them IMO. Cut your cloth accordingly...carry on winning things at CH level and eventually a backer will come in and make it less of a gamble for you to apply and win a place in SL.

Total construction costs for the Halliwell Jones stadium were £12m - and it was acknowledged as being a cheap build.

One thing you missed in summing up the strengths of various teams applying for a franchise - Widnes are setting a benchmark WAY over the heads of the other teams in the Championship in terms of player development. Look at the current table for U18's rugby. After the preliminary stages of the 2010 Vavoline U18's Academy, the league has been split into three sections - based on points difference. The teams will now play their fellow group teams, home and away.

Group A

St Helens +200
Wigan Warriors +168
Widnes Vikings +74
Leeds Rhinos +72
Hull Kingston Rovers +20

_______________

Group B

Warrington Wolves +6
Wakefield T Wildcats +2
Castleford Tigers -18
Harlequins RL -36
Bradford Bulls -40

_______________

Group C

Hull FC -115
Salford -139
Huddersfield -234
Catalans
Crusaders

Widnes are not only playing in the same league as the SL clubs at youth level, we are competing with them. They have won four games on the bounce in the last few weeks against so called bigger clubs. Our u16's are similarly playing against the SL boys and are unbeaten. Any other club in the Championship has one hell of an argument on their hands if they want claim a successful youth system when compared with ours. Most dont even run both u16 and u18 teams.

I DID SAY...[sizeWidnes have the ground, the fanbase to build on and a very wealthy backer....and should be first choice..[/size
...I fully support the argument that Widnes should be promoted (sic) to SL next time around...I was simply pointing out why Barrow shouldn't. I applaud the Widnes yoof set up.....it's good to see.

GutterFax says
but let's compare Barrow to the rest. Catalans and Quins tick the expansion box...as do the Wrexham Crusaders, so it's unlikely that they would make way...HKR are building things at Caravan park, so will probably be OK as well, leaving Wakey, Castleford and Salford to maybe be replaced by teams from outside the SL. Widnes have the ground, the fanbase to build on and a very wealthy backer....and should be first choice.....so which of the three above do you believe Barrow are best placed to replace? All 3 have been warned that their stadiums are an issue....but all 3 hold more than Craven Park........I doubt very much a 4 point score would replace another 4 point score......so to answer the OP......Barrow aren't ready yet and I honestly think that even the promise of 4.5 mil over 3 years wouldn't be enough.....
Barrow are a great club, with a great history, but there is no way they are ready for the top league.....it could well ruin them IMO. Cut your cloth accordingly...carry on winning things at CH level and eventually a backer will come in and make it less of a gamble for you to apply and win a place in SL.......


Barrow dont have another club within the 20 miles quoted, so that another point.
You say HKR are building things , well so are we, Yes its on a smaller scale but we have built a new stand when plenty of othershave not, we are getting our house in order both on and off the field.

Finally some good news re youth & academy's

BARROW RAIDERS

UNDER 18s STRUCTURES

2010-11 SEASONS

1. BARROW LAIKERS
Barrow Raiders will again be involved in running a team in the Gillette National Youth League for the 2010-11 and 2011 seasons (dates TBC due to likely season shift to summer). We would like to involve the amateur game more successfully in the Laikers. Our aim is to offer an Extended Scholarship programme for U18s, many of whom could play age-graded rugby for the Laikers.

2. EXTENDED SCHOLARSHIPS
Barrow Raiders recently attended an RFL presentation on changes in the scholarship structure. The RFL are suggesting that Championship clubs develop Extended Scholarships at U18s, whilst supporting and playing an active role in Service Area and Regional squads at age grades under 16s as a partner. We believe that this will be a positive move for the game at both pro and community level, and are keen to buy into the structure effectively

3. PRO CONTRACTS
The club has recently expressed an interest, through the appropriate channels, in a number of talented young local players currently on existing scholarships at other professional clubs. These players will be moving from U16s to U17s/U18s at the end of August, and Barrow would like to offer them a long-term opportunity with the club to bring them "home".

4. NEXT STEPS
Barrow Raiders wish to involve the amateur game at youth and open-age level in this process, and would like to invite coaches and club officials to a presentation where we will discuss this in more detail.

The principles of this will be:

Invitations will be sent out via the Barrow and District League (this email)

Clubs to pass this invitation to appropriate officials within their club
The presentation will take place at Barrow Raiders on Tuesday 22nd June at 8.00pm
Barrow Raiders staff or coaches WILL NOT approach any players for Barrow Laikers or Extended Scholarships until AFTER this date, and will liaise with player's clubs in the first instance

We would like, ideally, to recruit for Barrow Laikers U18s from the week commencing Monday 28th June, once young player's exam commitments have ended
We would like to involve people from the amateur game in the running of Barrow Laikers to ensure that it has a positive impact on the recruitment and retention of 16-18 year olds in the local game
5. ACTIONS
Please could all club officials take this to the appropriate personnel within their club. The presentation will be most relevant to current U16s coaches, who will be familiar with the age group concerned and may want to refer lads to the Laikers if they are happy with the programme. The presentation will also be important to open-age coaches, who may have concerns about the impact on A-team and 1st team rugby. If your club does not run a 16s or open-age team, you are more than welcome to attend as we believe that this structure is ultimately important to all clubs.

Better late than never, from little acorns etc

I admit I was wrong regarding the 20 mile radius.....total brain fart there

Still, I was also generous with the point for 8th or higher....in that it would be impossible to score that from the Championship.....but either way, you fall down on point 1. Craven Park does not and will not, hold 12,000 or anything near that in the near future and that's where the RFL/SL will sink any application.

I have no issue with clubs applying...but I still say, Barrow stay in the Championship, keep winning and sooner rather than later, someone will be prepared to bankroll an application. At that stage, with a plan to add the 5k stand required, planning permission granted and funding in place, THEN apply. The 4.5 million over 3 years should only be used to get a squad together that can compete......not for building work.