nope, with their new ground i was hoping leigh might even get their crowds up to 5000. seriously.

i see no reason why Fax, or leigh cant at least get to 3000, if not more, especially with the grounds they play in

if crowds are growing and the finances are good in NL1, why cant either present a realisitic SL bid

they dont have to spend all their money on winning NL1 so they can build for the longer term. as heartland teams with good grounds, surely they have it all in their favour

you really arent the sharpest knife in the drawer

you are implying you and others like you knew more about CC being ready for SL than the RFL.

the RFL certainly didnt think CC werent ready, they thought the time was right, hence my facetous comment.

well leave the expansion decisions up to the experts ie fans of rival NL1 and 2 clubs who knew CC werent ready for SL, and Les Catalans were

The 100 year argument is not ridiculous at all. Sports clubs that have had success tend to have had decent crowds over the years, they might fluctuate but if you look at teams like Wolves, or Notts Forest who have had some success but not much recently, they have still maintained decent crowds. There is no real equivalent in RL because as soon as a team has a low spot the fans dissappear. In 100 years, it should be possible to develop a decent number of dedicated fans, especially if they are the main team in town. Before someone says it, I am not expecting RL clubs to get crowds as big as soccer, but the percentage of diehards should be the same and it isn't.

...and you really are a weapon's grade moron.



No I am not. You are interpreting it that way. The two are distinctly different. The evidence is there for all to see that they were not ready, the RFL chose to ignore it.

My house is built on sand and has no real foundations. Was built in 1930 and has no cracks in the walls. Thats the reason sand bags a filled to stop bullets.

Bottom line:
*Samuels was not ready to finance the CC for three years in SL, but the RFL could not know that we would hit the worst financial crisis since the Thatcher era.
*CC have been bought by another club that think they can make money from the club, shock! Someone thinks they could run RL for profit? Burn them!
*Over the last 4 years the CC's "promis" of SL has meant great RL development in South Wales and lots of media interest. This has been hightened by CC in SL.
*There will be a club building on that interest and development in South Wales.
*RL has lost no money on the CC, since an Association Football team has picked up the tab, and is risking its money on them being profitable.

Obviously the Wrexam outcome is less good than had the CC stayed in South Wales, but it's by no means the end of the world. The real victims are the Crusaders fans and then again there are apparently only three of them, so no worries.

It is irrelevant because it would happen to all RL clubs therefore it is a problem of rugby league rather than the clubs themselves. You cannot ridicule a side for getting crowds of 2000 now saying they have had 100 years to build a fanbase and have failed when at times in that period they had much bigger crowds and all clubs would suffer a similar drop if they dropped down the divisions.

It is because RL has never succeeded in getting big enough that the crowds drop in the way they do. The Championship is such a drop from the top division that many people just don't enjoy watching a league where the crowds are low, travelling support is low and interest is low.

Which clubs would we class as having built up this support over 100 years?

you seem to think you and others like you know more than the RFL.

im backing the RFL at the moment

sorry, i go with facts rather than bias

the heartland clubs thatve been in SL the longest. the cream has risen to the top other than widnes

survival of the fittest etc.

when murdoch came up with his 90 million pounds SL deal, how much of the money was used for clubs outside SL as a bribe to allow it to go through

these clubs just cant help themselves

the RFL can only do so much. if these clubs dont have the management and people behind the scences to build the club into viable sporting outfits, they deserve to die off.

RL doesnt have the funds to waste on clubs going nowhere in the heartlands

Facts like these,

[*]A top tier provincial Union side finishing mid-table had managed crowds of 2500.
[*]Bridgend didn't draw big crowds for RL either, such as 3000 for Wales-Australia.
[*]Despite having a good NL1 side they were still getting little over 1000 home fans for most games.
[*]Their management had massively over-estimated what they could get previously thinking that 14,000 was achievable for Brisbane Broncos and they got 2,000.
[*]LS had pulled out of a local Union club and was quite clearly not as rich as many as supposed.
[*]On a prediction of an average of 4,000 they were losing over £30k a game to even a team like Widnes. This would have needed to be bankrolled by LS.
[*]They were banking on attracting fans in numbers from all over South Wales when fans rarely travel. A team like Leeds average 16,000 but only 2,000 will travel 30 minutes away.
[*]Similar all-australian teams had failed after a short amount of time.

It was always quite likely that it wasn't going to last very long. I and many others suspected that LS had over-estimated what the Crusaders could get early on and he paid for it, heavily.

Of course we were only biased and despite being proved correct are still only biased. Go figure.

Survival of the fittest cannot be achieved by a licence system which, by its very nature, is about protectionism. Only P&R can, and did, achieve survival of the fittest.

Some interesting opinions in this thread. As somebody who works and studies in Wrexham I'm delighted with the proposed move. On a personal level, I have always felt that RL has a much better chance of prospering in the North than it has ever had in the South.

I do feel sorry for those Crusaders fans who will no longer be able to support their club week in, week out but there is huge potential for the game up here. The WRU have pretty much turned a blind eye to the region, save for a couple of Scarlets games, and their is a definite gap in the market for a top level Rugby club.

North Wales has some extremely strong amateur RU clubs with massive junior sections. I accept that RU and RL are different games but their is a huge potential talent and supporter base for the Crusaders to target. Currently, there are very limited opportunities for people living in the region to watch top-level professional sport. In fact, there are none. If this move is done properly and supported by some forward-thinking, long-term marketing and community work then it can work.

The Crusaders have been competing with some major RU and football clubs for support and attention. The WRU are extremely active in the South and the local press are very RU-focused, understandably so given the large crowds and levels of interest. I'm not really sure whether they were ready or not for Super League - performances both on and off the field would suggest not - but the simple fact is that the RFL made the decision and we must run with it and hope it succeeds.

I am very pleased that a new South Wales-based club has been formed and I hope they are successful. Having two senior RL clubs in Wales can only compliment the excellent progress the WRL have been making on the international scene.

People who suggest that the new consortium are only in this to raise money for the football club are wide of the mark. Wrexham FC have endured a couple of pretty miserable campaigns and apathy amongst their supporters is pretty high - something I can relate do being a supporter of Chester City. They attracted just over 1000 fans this weekend so they have their own work to do. Nobody sees the Crusaders as a magic wand that will bring revenue into the club. They know it is a long-term project that will require lots of hard work but they also recognise that the addition of the Crusaders can compliment the football club and raise the towns profile.

There is a fair amount of building work scheduled for the Racecourse - including a new Kop end - and for this to be worth the effort the ground needs to be in use 12 months of the year. Wrexham is a pleasant enough town and the Racecourse is about as central as you can get. The train station is 200 yards away and the town centre can be reached in 5 minutes. It has lots of bars, shops and restaurants and with the North Wales coast a short drive away it is a welcome addition to Super League.

I'm not going to comment on the frustration of Widnes fans or followers of other clubs who missed out on Super League. However, no matter how close Wrexham is to Widnes the fact remains that it is in Wales and the presence of two elite Welsh RL clubs is great for the development of RL. Personally, I think Widnes should be in SL and probably would be if it weren't for the antics of Stephen Vaughan.

You carry on going with your RFL bias ('facts' to you) and carry backing a bunch of incompetents, it speaks volumes about you.