FORUMS FORUMS






RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
25 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!
  
FORUMS > The Virtual Terrace > Salford Charged with Salary Cap Breach
183 posts in 13 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin, Durham Giant , TimperleySaint
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach1881No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Sep 200816 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2024Nov 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
simpsons/simp100.gif
:simpsons/simp100.gif



Wow... Kick in the teeth for Watson and co after a promising start! I wonder if this is one if the reason a deal for Luke Burgess fell through?

RankPostsTeam
International Board Member15309No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 200222 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Sep 2020Apr 2017LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
2115.jpg
[img:1ucbtp34]http://i62.tinypic.com/2hs0qkg.jpg[/img:1ucbtp34] [color=#BF0000:1ucbtp34]the [size=100:1ucbtp34]C[/size:1ucbtp34]laret [size=100:1ucbtp34]A[/size:1ucbtp34]nd [size=100:1ucbtp34]G[/size:1ucbtp34]old [size=100:1ucbtp34]M[/size:1ucbtp34]achine is ready to roll[/color:1ucbtp34] sunday September 1st 2013, when a dream became a reality!!:2115.jpg



is this surprising with the circus that has been going on in the last couple of years.

it's another kick in the teeth for the long time, upstanding supporters of Salford RLFC

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach15795
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 200519 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2024Nov 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
16032_1698179828.jpg
"[color=#800080:2tf4iz4f]BOHICA[/color:2tf4iz4f]":d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_16032.jpg



Cant wait for @DrMarWANK to comment

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach2833No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Apr 200916 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Apr 2022Apr 2022LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

:



Inevitable after it emerged some players were given contracts by Koukash-owned companies on top of their contracts at Salford.

RankPostsTeam
International Board Member28186No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Apr 200322 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Aug 2016Aug 2016LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
Transparent Backgrounds/Waldorf.gif
"As you travel through life don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things" - George Carlin [url:2cg5oc2o]http://twitter.com/AndyGilder[/url:2cg5oc2o] [url:2cg5oc2o]http://fromthewesternterrace.blogspot.co.uk[/url:2cg5oc2o] This week: Four keys to a Rhinos win in the WCC:Transparent Backgrounds/Waldorf.gif



Given the new live cap, the only way you can breach it is by making a deliberate attempt to circumvent the cap either by false accounting or under the counter payments.

The problem with the new league structure however, is that a 20 point deduction next week would be meaningless. Even if Salford finish in the bottom four, they'll still start the Qualifiers on a level footing with the rest of the teams around them, which is no different to the position they were in last year. So in effect, given they realistically probably weren't going to make the top four anyway, they haven't lost anything by allegedly trying to cheat the system.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach567No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Oct 200618 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Mar 2022Apr 2021LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

:



pmsl, a promising start and now doomed to the bottom 4 already after 4 rounds.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach2833No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Apr 200916 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Apr 2022Apr 2022LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

:



Quote: Andy Gilder "Given the new live cap, the only way you can breach it is by making a deliberate attempt to circumvent the cap either by false accounting or under the counter payments.'"


My understanding is that this is exactly the accusation.
It became known in Puletua's tribunal that he had one contract with Salford and one with another company owned by Marwan Koukash. This isn't necessarily a breach of the cap, but it would be if the second contract was not disclosed to the RFL and therefore the payments not accounted for on the live cap. Ultimately, the accusation is that the club were deceitful and we're paying players through third party companies but not disclosing these.
I imagine that since this became known in the Puletua tribunal, the RFL have been looking into how many players had similar arrangements and therefore how far over the salary cap Salford were in those two years.
Koukash always said he would break the salary cap deliberately, but it seems he has been caught. To me, the most ridiculous thing is that he wanted players to keep quiet about the additional contracts but then seemed to go out of his was to annoy them as much as possible!

RankPostsTeam
Moderator12504
JoinedServiceReputation
Jul 200222 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2024Nov 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
2358_1651040874.jpg
Wakefield TRINITY:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_2358.jpg

Moderator


Marc Green = Grass icon_lol.gif

RankPostsTeam
International Star17980
JoinedServiceReputation
Apr 201114 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2024Nov 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
simpsons/simp006.gif
:simpsons/simp006.gif



This one will be interesting.
The RFL have not been too successful in dealing with these things over the years.
The legal team at Wigan ran rings round the governing body in the season that they signed Fielden and Radlinski played for free.

Koucash is likely to test their resolve and if there was a legal challenge to the validity of the cap, things could get really messy.

As someone else has posted, Leigh looked to have spent very heavily last season and it wouldn't be a surprise to see them in the dock when this one has been cleared up.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach2833No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Apr 200916 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Apr 2022Apr 2022LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

:



Quote: wrencat1873 "This one will be interesting.
The RFL have not been too successful in dealing with these things over the years.
The legal team at Wigan ran rings round the governing body in the season that they signed Fielden and Radlinski played for free.

Koucash is likely to test their resolve and if there was a legal challenge to the validity of the cap, things could get really messy.

As someone else has posted, Leigh looked to have spent very heavily last season and it wouldn't be a surprise to see them in the dock when this one has been cleared up.'"


The trouble has always been that no player has to disclose their earnings to the RFL. They rely wholly on auditing clubs and not players. As long as the club can, in some way, bury the payment then the RFL will find it impossible to discover.
What makes this case different is that the player initially involved did disclose his earnings to a tribunal, highlighting the fact he had a contract with another company owned by MK. I imagine the other players who might have had these contracts (Chase, Locke, Hock. Smith) have been quite happy to cooperate with the RFL given the way they were treated by Koukash

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach2833No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Apr 200916 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Apr 2022Apr 2022LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

:



Quote: wrencat1873 "This one will be interesting.
The RFL have not been too successful in dealing with these things over the years.
The legal team at Wigan ran rings round the governing body in the season that they signed Fielden and Radlinski played for free.

Koucash is likely to test their resolve and if there was a legal challenge to the validity of the cap, things could get really messy.

As someone else has posted, Leigh looked to have spent very heavily last season and it wouldn't be a surprise to see them in the dock when this one has been cleared up.'"


The trouble has always been that no player has to disclose their earnings to the RFL. They rely wholly on auditing clubs and not players. As long as the club can, in some way, bury the payment then the RFL will find it impossible to discover.
What makes this case different is that the player initially involved did disclose his earnings to a tribunal, highlighting the fact he had a contract with another company owned by MK. I imagine the other players who might have had these contracts (Chase, Locke, Hock. Smith) have been quite happy to cooperate with the RFL given the way they were treated by Koukash

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach15795
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 200519 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2024Nov 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
16032_1698179828.jpg
"[color=#800080:2tf4iz4f]BOHICA[/color:2tf4iz4f]":d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_16032.jpg



Quote: wrencat1873 "This one will be interesting.
The RFL have not been too successful in dealing with these things over the years.
The legal team at Wigan ran rings round the governing body in the season that they signed Fielden and Radlinski played for free.

Koucash is likely to test their resolve and if there was a legal challenge to the validity of the cap, things could get really messy.

As someone else has posted, Leigh looked to have spent very heavily last season and it wouldn't be a surprise to see them in the dock when this one has been cleared up.'"


The thing with Wigan is that 'we' didnt actually break the salary cap i.e. we didnt spend more in that year on wages than we where allowed to. The payments where simply back-loaded into into the contracts which is common practice in plenty of sports (the NFL being a prime example)

The RFL had to be seen to be doing something about it so Wigan got charged with breaking the 'spirit of the cap'

Will be very interesting to see the reaction to Salford's alleged breach

Him
RankPostsTeam
International Board Member14970No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 200222 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2021Nov 2021LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
2244_1299706258.jpg
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_2244.jpg



Quote: meast "is this surprising with the circus that has been going on in the last couple of years.

it's another kick in the teeth for the long time, upstanding supporters of Salford RLFC'"

Agree with this. However it's all of Koukash's doing.
This kind of thing does also highlight the bizarre paranoia of some RL fans. On Twitter I've already seen Salford fans believing the RFL "want to kill the club" or that companies associated with Salford could sue the RFL for loss of earnings. I simply don't understand these people. If I were a Salford fan my anger would be 100% directed at the clown running my club who has put my club into this position.

Him
RankPostsTeam
International Board Member14970No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 200222 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2021Nov 2021LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
2244_1299706258.jpg
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_2244.jpg



Quote: Andy Gilder "Given the new live cap, the only way you can breach it is by making a deliberate attempt to circumvent the cap either by false accounting or under the counter payments.

The problem with the new league structure however, is that a 20 point deduction next week would be meaningless. Even if Salford finish in the bottom four, they'll still start the Qualifiers on a level footing with the rest of the teams around them, which is no different to the position they were in last year. So in effect, given they realistically probably weren't going to make the top four anyway, they haven't lost anything by allegedly trying to cheat the system.'"

Agree with this. Which is why I think larger punishments need to be handed out with bans for club officials involved.

As for the points deduction as you say with the split into the 8's there has to be a different way of administering the points deduction. So going on a 20 point deduction, I reckon Salford should get a 15 point deduction for the regular season (ie the 23 rounds up until the 8's start) and then a 5 point deduction as soon as the 8's start. As the 8's roughly make up a quarter of the season.

EHW
RankPostsTeam
Club Owner8627
JoinedServiceReputation
Nov 200321 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Feb 2020Feb 2020LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
users/saintsold.gif
Forever in Rented Accomodation:users/saintsold.gif



Quote: Andy Gilder "Given the new live cap, the only way you can breach it is by making a deliberate attempt to circumvent the cap either by false accounting or under the counter payments.

The problem with the new league structure however, is that a 20 point deduction next week would be meaningless. Even if Salford finish in the bottom four, they'll still start the Qualifiers on a level footing with the rest of the teams around them, which is no different to the position they were in last year. So in effect, given they realistically probably weren't going to make the top four anyway, they haven't lost anything by allegedly trying to cheat the system.'"


It would also depend on when the punishment was laid down too. As you say a 20 point deduction now is fairly meaningless....if the investigation takes 5 months, and into August, a 20 point deduction at that point of the season could be fairly disastrous for them if they are in the middle 8 at that point. The RFL can choose the punishment, and when to apply it, without any sort of transparency or accountability into their decision making process.

As usual with the RFL there will inevitably be more questions than answers once this situation is "resolved".

183 posts in 13 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin, Durham Giant , TimperleySaint
183 posts in 13 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin, Durham Giant , TimperleySaint



All views expressed are those of the author and not necessarily those of the RLFANS.COM or its subsites.

Whilst every effort is made to ensure that news stories, articles and images are correct, we cannot be held responsible for errors. However, if you feel any material on this website is copyrighted or incorrect in any way please contact us using the link at the top of the page so we can remove it or negotiate copyright permission.

RLFANS.COM, the owners of this website, is not responsible for the content of its sub-sites or posts, please email the author of this sub-site or post if you feel you find an article offensive or of a choice nature that you disagree with.

Copyright 1999 - 2024 RLFANS.COM

You must be 18+ to gamble, for more information and for help with gambling issues see https://www.begambleaware.org/.



Please Support RLFANS.COM


4.32373046875:5
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
47m
Planning for next season
Vancouver Le
179
49m
Leigh Leopards - 2025 Fixtures
Vancouver Le
4
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40739
1m
Film game
karetaker
5662
2m
Salford
Uncle Rico
18
2m
2025 Recruitment
dddooommm
199
3m
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
The Dentist
4029
4m
Leigh Leopards - 2025 Fixtures
Vancouver Le
4
4m
Shopping list for 2025
The games af
5579
5m
Accounts
Greg Florimo
135
6m
Planning for next season
Vancouver Le
179
7m
How many games will we win
Trojan Horse
21
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Mike Ogunwole
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Bailey Dawson
Wanderer
1
TODAY
2024
poplar cats
12
TODAY
Dan Norman Retires
Cokey
1
TODAY
How many games will we win
Trojan Horse
21
TODAY
Leigh Leopards - 2025 Fixtures
Vancouver Le
4
TODAY
Catalan Away
Dannyboywt1
6
TODAY
2025 Betfred Super League Fixtures
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
2025 fixtures
Smiffy27
15
TODAY
Fixtures
Willzay
13
TODAY
Salford
Uncle Rico
18
TODAY
WCC Off
Choc Ice
11
TODAY
Leeds away first up
Big lads mat
49
TODAY
Jake McLoughlin
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Assistant Coach - Langley
exiledrhino
30
TODAY
Noah Booth out on loan
Big lads mat
22
TODAY
Luke Gale testimonial match
BarnsleyGull
2
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
2025 Betfred Super League Fixt..
895
Magic Weekend 2025 - Back To N..
567
England Beat Samoa To Take Tes..
1295
England's Women Demolish The W..
1127
England Beat Samoa Comfortably..
1365
Operational Rules Tribunal –..
1150
IMG-RFL club gradings released..
1414
Wakefield Trinity Win Champion..
1958
Hunslet Secure Promotion After..
2166
Trinity Into Play Off Final Af..
2408
Wigan Warriors Crowned Champio..
1975
York Valkyrie Win Back to Back..
2215
Hunslet Book Relegation Play O..
2681
Penrith Panthers Secure Fourth..
2107
Wigan Humiliate Leigh For Gran..
2178
POSTSONLINEREGISTRATIONSRECORD
19.65M 2,273 ↑4280,15514,103
LOGIN HERE
or REGISTER for more features!.

When you register you get access to the live match scores, live match chat and you can post in the discussions on the forums.
RLFANS Match Centre
 Thu 13th Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R1
20:00
Wigan
v
Leigh
 Fri 14th Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R1
20:00
Hull KR
v
Castleford
20:00
Catalans
v
Hull FC
 Sat 15th Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R1
15:00
Leeds
v
Wakefield
17:30
St.Helens
v
Salford
 Sun 16th Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R1
15:00
Huddersfield
v
Warrington
 Thu 20th Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R2
20:00
Wakefield
v
Hull KR
 Fri 21st Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R2
20:00
Warrington
v
Catalans
20:00
Hull FC
v
Wigan
 Sat 22nd Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R2
15:00
Salford
v
Leeds
20:00
Castleford
v
St.Helens
 Sun 23rd Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R2
14:30
Leigh
v
Huddersfield
 Sun 2nd Mar 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R1
04:30
Penrith
v
Cronulla
06:30
Canberra
v
NZ Warriors
 Thu 6th Mar 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R1
09:00
Sydney
v
Brisbane
     Mens Super League XXX-R3
20:00
Hull FC
v
Leigh
 Fri 7th Mar 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R1
07:00
Wests
v
Newcastle
09:00
Dolphins
v
Souths
     Mens Super League XXX-R3
20:00
Castleford
v
Salford
20:00
St.Helens
v
Hull KR
ALL SCORES PROVIDED BY RLFANS.COM (SETTINGS)
Matches on TV
Thu 13th Feb
SL
20:00
Wigan-Leigh
Fri 14th Feb
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Castleford
SL
20:00
Catalans-Hull FC
Sat 15th Feb
SL
15:00
Leeds-Wakefield
SL
17:30
St.Helens-Salford
Sun 16th Feb
SL
15:00
Huddersfield-Warrington
Thu 20th Feb
SL
20:00
Wakefield-Hull KR
Fri 21st Feb
SL
20:00
Warrington-Catalans
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Wigan
Sat 22nd Feb
SL
15:00
Salford-Leeds
SL
20:00
Castleford-St.Helens
Sun 23rd Feb
SL
14:30
Leigh-Huddersfield
Thu 6th Mar
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Leigh
Fri 7th Mar
SL
20:00
Castleford-Salford
SL
20:00
St.Helens-Hull KR
Sat 8th Mar
SL
17:30
Catalans-Leeds
Sun 9th Mar
SL
17:30
Warrington-Wakefield
SL
17:30
Wigan-Huddersfield
Thu 20th Mar
SL
20:00
Salford-Huddersfield
Fri 21st Mar
SL
20:00
St.Helens-Warrington
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
Hull KR 29 731 344 387 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
47m
Planning for next season
Vancouver Le
179
49m
Leigh Leopards - 2025 Fixtures
Vancouver Le
4
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40739
1m
Film game
karetaker
5662
2m
Salford
Uncle Rico
18
2m
2025 Recruitment
dddooommm
199
3m
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
The Dentist
4029
4m
Leigh Leopards - 2025 Fixtures
Vancouver Le
4
4m
Shopping list for 2025
The games af
5579
5m
Accounts
Greg Florimo
135
6m
Planning for next season
Vancouver Le
179
7m
How many games will we win
Trojan Horse
21
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Mike Ogunwole
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Bailey Dawson
Wanderer
1
TODAY
2024
poplar cats
12
TODAY
Dan Norman Retires
Cokey
1
TODAY
How many games will we win
Trojan Horse
21
TODAY
Leigh Leopards - 2025 Fixtures
Vancouver Le
4
TODAY
Catalan Away
Dannyboywt1
6
TODAY
2025 Betfred Super League Fixtures
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
2025 fixtures
Smiffy27
15
TODAY
Fixtures
Willzay
13
TODAY
Salford
Uncle Rico
18
TODAY
WCC Off
Choc Ice
11
TODAY
Leeds away first up
Big lads mat
49
TODAY
Jake McLoughlin
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Assistant Coach - Langley
exiledrhino
30
TODAY
Noah Booth out on loan
Big lads mat
22
TODAY
Luke Gale testimonial match
BarnsleyGull
2
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
2025 Betfred Super League Fixt..
895
Magic Weekend 2025 - Back To N..
567
England Beat Samoa To Take Tes..
1295
England's Women Demolish The W..
1127
England Beat Samoa Comfortably..
1365
Operational Rules Tribunal –..
1150
IMG-RFL club gradings released..
1414
Wakefield Trinity Win Champion..
1958
Hunslet Secure Promotion After..
2166
Trinity Into Play Off Final Af..
2408
Wigan Warriors Crowned Champio..
1975
York Valkyrie Win Back to Back..
2215
Hunslet Book Relegation Play O..
2681
Penrith Panthers Secure Fourth..
2107
Wigan Humiliate Leigh For Gran..
2178


Visit the RLFANS.COM SHOP
for more merchandise!