Interesting point in the unlikely event they went 13 a side, change scrums. How do we define our identity?

What you mean sc-avenger is one journo suggested it, which is miles apart from Union even considering it. You really should get out more.

No Galliafax, what I meant is what I said!

10 years ago Wayne Shelford suggested something similar, he also said that rucks and mauls should be non competitive in order to clean them up and allow the ball to be freed up much quicker. Another of his suggestions was that teams should be limited to 6 phases of play in order to stop dour forward oriented teams from dominating possession with up the jumper, yard at a time borefests.

Puzzles me why you want to discuss Union on a League forum? Surely there are places that you can go to to chat about other sports......oh, hang on
[urlhttp://viewforum.php?f=30[/url

Because sc-avenger is obsessed about union. I reckon he and Mr Churchill are one and the same

If it drops to 13, then it would be a matter of time before a merger. Either on a club by club basis or a cross divisional championship. Northern v Southern etc.

Yes there is tradition and all that but part of that tradition is being part of the northern union and 15 a side. if they drop to 13 then their game will change and there will be a drive to merge.

But I doubt they will drop to 13 a side.

Number of players isn't the main factor here. It's what happens to put the ball back in play.
Have a pile on and a supposed contest for possession and you have RU.
Have everyone get out of the way and the player in possession put the ball back in play and you have RL.
Have everyone get out of the way, give the ball to the ref and he put it down to bring into play (and some other rules about obstruction) and you have american football.

You could change the numbers on the pitch, but unless the method of recycling possession is altered, it's still fundamentally the same game.

I don't know if I agree with you here.
The "pile up" that you mention are certainly competitive (although there are some bizarre rules surrounding them !) but, if these were limited to 6 phases, their game would change beyond all recognition.

Although I don't expect that they will drop to 13 players, IF they did, the drive towards a merger of the 2 sports would come from all sides.
The big boys in league would see £££ signs and the union brigade mat see to chance to rid the world of RL.

Also with 13 on the pitch. That pile up will effectively be smaller. You can't throw half a team into the pile up as it will leave too many gaps to be exploited. So at that point they will make a tactical change to just holding the player with fewer people, which would lead to effectively an unlimited tackle version of the game with effectively uncontested rucks.

The natural leap from that will be to limit the tackles.

But I don't think a drop to 13 will happen.

It's just a journalist burbling to himself on a quiet news day - nothing to see here.

Quote The Chronicler of Chiswic="The Chronicler of Chiswic"It's just a journalist burbling to himself on a quiet news day - nothing to see here.'" Its really, not union is in a crisis the game is under increased examination from medical bodies and the defensive improvements from league coaches coming into union has killed their game in terms of entertainment in the northern hemisphere. The bmj has several articles on how the game is no longer safe for kids to play. Its not just a slow news day story. These proposals are coming from senior people in their game. balls.ie/rugby/tony-ward-13-a-side-rugby-3423/

Quote The Chronicler of Chiswic="The Chronicler of Chiswic"It's just a journalist burbling to himself on a quiet news day - nothing to see here.'" Its really, not union is in a crisis the game is under increased examination from medical bodies and the defensive improvements from league coaches coming into union has killed their game in terms of entertainment in the northern hemisphere. The bmj has several articles on how the game is no longer safe for kids to play. Its not just a slow news day story. These proposals are coming from senior people in their game. balls.ie/rugby/tony-ward-13-a-side-rugby-3423/

I take it as flattering that another sport is considering mirroring ours to reach the levels of entertainment that we achieve.