Expansion for its own sake is pointless. The US/Canada has potential that dwarfs any other options SL has. However, you've got to be really careful how you manage any growth there, as any potential new money can disappear as fast as it appears. I know its a huge 'if', but IF SL can tap into the US sports market in a sustainable way the money there is potentially far greater than anything likely to be generated in the UK alone.

On the plus side, the sport isn't starting from a position as a flat cap, working class northerner sport as seen by the majority of the population - we'd probably have exactly the same image as RU there because most north Americans wouldn't know the difference even if you tried to explain it to them. The bigger obstacle is to move from being seen as a weird minority sport like lacrosse to one that can get and keep fans and sponsorship and TV money. I don't think having a number of teams from places such as Leeds/Wigan matters, but I suspect having a London based team would be vital to create interest and (oddly enough) credibility from a marketing perspective.

I just think that the alternative is continuation of a long, slow decline in SL heartlands as RU dominance as the second sport behind football grows over time.

Why do we have to keep bringing up union all the time we are league not union and has far has I can see we have idiots in charge of us they are the ones that need sorting out

Because, as others have rightly pointed out, over the last 22 years we have chopped and changed our system (see topic thread) and not really grown the game to any extent whilst Union have, from a pretty much standing start, eclipsed us on most of the off field demographics that lead to self sufficiency or even profitability.
There are few other sports where the comparison works or is valid.



We are a professional sport where the tail (the clubs) wags the dog (the sport). It works in other sports like football where the clubs have most power, but the pinnacle of that sport is still a FIFA World Cup, in Union it is their World Cup, but in League, it is apparently 2 teams made up of players from the east coast of Australia going at it 3 times a year.

Currently 28 sides and probably soon 30 (15 Aus/1 NZ/1 France/12 English/1 Mercenary side in Canada) spread over just 2 competitions is the total sum of our top tier globally and the interests of those clubs will always take precedent over the needs of the game........I could list the top tier clubs globally in football, but it would be pointless as the top 2 divisions in the UK already eclipse League globally, but a comparison with Union is more valid. It isn't the fault of the RFL/ARL that we find ourselves in this predicament, but the self serving owners of the top clubs who will be happy to close the door and simply use the remaining semi-pro clubs that survive as feeder clubs......ergo, see the thread about an Extraordinary GM being called by the lower tier clubs.
Proof of this is the refusal of the NRL to look at a club in Western Australia or even a second New Zealand club....and given where the growing majority of their playing rosters come from, their refusal to consider NZII or even let a Fijian/Tongan side join the 2nd tier is shocking.......the 19 lowest 2017 NRL attendances were all games hosted in greater Sydney whilst 10 of the top 15 regular season attendances were all outside NSW.....there are too many clubs in NSW but whilst the turkeys have the vote, then they won't dare to vote for Christmas!

If a team from anywhere wants to compete in sl then imo they should start in l1 and gain promotion. They also need to add something major. The fact we are looking at Canada and America is laughable. Do premier league teams have teams thousands of miles away competing? No. Do nrl? No. Do ru? No. We're looking at it all wrong. By all means help introduce an americas league with an americas all stars in a world club series. But expand the game into places like Newcastle and Sheffield.
People seem to have this idea that American TV stations are going to play insane money to broadcast nyork vs Wigan. They're not going to be interested.

Which is exactly why I believe the North American clubs would ditch our SL 'giants' very quickly, if the venture over there succeeds. And we would return to 'sqare one' over here, or what is left of it by then.

I don't know what the US TV stations play, but they will love to broadcast Toronto vs New York and New York vs Leeds, and New York vs Catalans, and New York vs Toulouse, and New York vs London. But they will have no interest in New York vs Leigh. That is why we must ensure that Leigh never sees the light of a Super League day ever again. And that is why we must promote Toulouse, Toronto, New York and London into Super League as soon as possible.

I know the current climate of trying to see your doctor is difficult, but you must insist on seeing him ,you really need urgent treatment. Or alternatively, you need to see a psychiatrist ASAP.

Like what? What constitutes "major" in your eyes? And given that probably half of the clubs in Super League (never mind most heartland clubs outside Super League) struggle to contribute anything notable, let alone major, why is the onus to do that only on expansion clubs? Shouldn't all clubs be contributing something major, or do you get a free pass if you are a club that happens to be within an arbritrary boundary?

If expansion clubs come into Super League and want to simply be a strong, competitive, sustainable club in its own right, why isn't that enough? It seems to be a standard that many of our heartland clubs haven't reached in more than 120 years of trying.


Yes they do.

This season, Manchester United have played five fixtures in the United States. Arsenal have played two games in Sydney, one in Beijing and one in Shanghai. Chelsea have played one in Shanghai and two in Singapore. Liverpool have played two in Hong Kong and three in Germany. Tottenham have played three games in the United States. Man City have played three in the US and one in Reykjavík. They do this annually because they see the market potential in these parts of the world.


Yes it does.

The NRL will kick-off with Canterbury, Souths, NZ Warriors and Melbourne playing in Perth. Perth is 2,500 miles from Sydney, and 3,300 miles from Auckland (roughly the same as Manchester to Toronto).


Yes it does.

Super Rugby in the southern hemisphere is a league of clubs from Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Argentina and Japan. Closer to home, the Pro 14 has clubs from Scotland, Ireland, Wales, Italy and South Africa, and there have been two fixtures from the Aviva Premiership played in the US.


The responsibility for promoting the game in Newcastle and Sheffield lies with Newcastle Thunder and Sheffield Eagles. They are the clubs active in that market, they are the ones who will reap the largest benefit of any work done in those markets, and the onus is on them to promote themselves to that market. Given that both of those clubs (in one guise or another) has been subject to a merger and given that one of those has played fixtures on a University playing field (and has had more grounds in the Super League era than the perrenial nomads in London), it is perhaps indicitive of the level of interest in that market.



That remains to be seen. I've said in an earlier post that there is room for RL to really carve our a niche in the North American market. I think that it's a risk worth taking, given that the risks of not pursing this opportunity are even greater.

You are right. Of course, neither will they have any interest in NY v Salford, Castleford, Wakefield, Hull KR, Widnes,Huddersfield, either. And, very soon would lose interest in NY v Saints, Wigan, Hull, Warrington, or Leeds. And, once the novelty of 'vive la France' had worn off, I would suggest they would quickly lose interest in NY v either of the Championship 'quality' French teams, either!

Catalans is not in the Championship. It is in Super League, after decisively defeating lowly Leigh in the MPG. It is unlikely to lose its place in Super League after recently acquiring David Mead, Michael McIlorum, Antoni Maria and Benjamin Jullien.

Toulouse is currently in the Championship, but is likely to be promoted to Super League soon. When that happens the Toulouse player roster, though heavily French, is likely to be strengthened in order to make the team competitive with the "Big Boys" of Super League.

I doubt that 95% of Americans would be able to tell you what country Catalans or Toulouse are actually in unless you add the suffix "France". Most of them would also struggle to place London.

Catalan never lost its SL place did they.

The RFL saw to that

The difference with Toronto vs Fev or Leigh, is that they add substantial costs to all of the other visiting clubs and may affect hoe the pro competitions can run ie SL, Challenge Cup, Playoffs etc

If the only added value that they bring is going into their own pocket, why make every other club in the comp just that little bit poorer.

Of course, if there are broadcasting revenues and they open the door to some better quality sponsorship then, that would be totally different.

I don't necessarily disagree, but this idea that any expansion club has to "bring something substantial" to the league, IMO, sets them up to fail and is simply a method for some to say that expansion doesn't / cannot work because not only is this "something substantial" never specified, it's usually completely unattainable. That esspecially the case when people suggest that the only measure of "what a club brings" is away fans - a source of revenue that is only worth around £20 per head per year to each club.

If we're going to start holding Catalans or any other club to certain standards, it's only right that we hold heartland clubs to similar standards - every club should be showing growth, not just the usual handful.

Yep, it was the RFL that told the Leigh players to lose their heads and their bottle during the MPG.