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Quote: Eastbourne Warrior "I completely agree with that bit, it's in direct contradiction to what was said on SL backchat where it was muted that Warrington and St Helens were to 2 main clubs pushing for it to be scrapped.'"


You have it completely wrong. St Helens and Warrington were the only clubs who OPPOSED the scrapping. Strangely Leeds, Hull and Wigan (all wealthy clubs) were FOR scrapping it. Read into that what you will.

From a Saints POV, we are probably in agreement with Smith's views on the RFL.

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That Leeds and Wigan actually had a real plan to make dual-reg a success?

Like most things dual-reg was what a club made of it. Wigan got hold of a good lower league club in an expansion area and worked with them to offer a pathway to an entire new player-pool. As well as using them as a breeding ground for welsh players and a local club for fitness etc.

Leeds got hold a lower league expansion club, somewhere they had previously done some good development work. They are using them as a new player pathway to get access to an entire new player-pool. They have also got together with a local club and come up with a fantastic plan to help youth development in the entire city right from the lowest levels and age groups through to SL, a really positive innovation.

Some others just registered their squads wholesale and then wondered why they weren’t making the best use of it.

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Quote: bewareshadows "Whilst there is merit in the article, the comment on leadership is flawed.

Leadership is based on power, no power, no leadership.

The RFL is an advisory body to the SL chairmen. Nothing more, that was the way SL was set up, with the power and the money in the hands of the clubs.

The RFL is a great scapegoat for anyone with an axe to grind, blame them they are the governing body, but they can't govern diddly without the say so of the RL chairmen. I'd be keen to see how many RL chairmen are going to give up their voting rights to allow the RFL to become a stronger leadership body that can impose rules rather than just suggest them???? I'm not expecting a lot will be doing that.

I have no problem with either system of governance, both have merits and draw backs, but it's a bit cheap for the power brokers to lay the blame at the advisory body.

The issue on enforcing the rules is fair comment though, the RFL is the civil service of the SL chairmen, so they should enforce the rules.'"


Well said.
I wrote a similar thing on the Wakefield site.

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Like him or not, and I'm aware that plenty don't, he is never afraid to speak his mind; on the issue of leadership and the crazy options that have been put forward to alter the structure of the game, I think he has it pretty much spot on. Some tough decisions have to be made and expecting clubs to behave virtuously is unrealistic - the majority will act out of self-interest and the net result will be a series of outcomes that are not in the best interests of the sport as a whole.

I'm also pleased to see one of the perceived power-brokers in the game being critical of Dr Koukash and his silly pronouncements; it's good to have new enthusiasm and investment into RL, but these people must realise that they can't tear down the comp and rebuild it in their own image.

I think he's wrong about docking points from Salford though, unless that sanction already exists within the rules; you can't go around inventing new penalties for an offence just because this instance is perceived as being more egregious than the last time it was committed. If a points deduction doesn't exist in the rules as they stand, then amend them now and issue guidance to all clubs, for the avoidance of future doubt.

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Quote: bren2k "I'm also pleased to see one of the perceived power-brokers in the game being critical of Dr Koukash and his silly pronouncements; it's good to have new enthusiasm and investment into RL, but these people must realise that they can't tear down the comp and rebuild it in their own image.

'"


I don't quite understand what the silly pronouncements may be that have apparently been made by Dr Koukash.You may wish to clarify ? In relation to salary cap issues;it has come to my attention that the cap in the other code for Chamionship sides - one level down from Premiership - is more than that permitted in Super League and Down Under they remain rlFurther Ahead Going Forwardrl

I can also disagree with you on the point of Smith being perceived as a power -broker in the game. icon_surprised.gif

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Quote: SCR-SeaDiver "I don't quite understand what the silly pronouncements may be that have apparently been made by Dr Koukash.You may wish to clarify ? In relation to salary cap issues;it has come to my attention that the cap in the other code for Chamionship sides - one level down from Premiership - is more than that permitted in Super League and Down Under they remain rlFurther Ahead Going Forwardrl

I can also disagree with you on the point of Smith being perceived as a power -broker in the game.
The silly pronouncements that you're not aware of, that you then go to talk about you mean?

I'd say that Warrington and by extension Tony Smith, are perceived as power-brokers in the game - I'm sure I can't be the only one who sees it that way. If that wasn't the case, I don't suppose his comments would have been so widely reported?

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Quote: SmokeyTA "That Leeds and Wigan actually had a real plan to make dual-reg a success?

Like most things dual-reg was what a club made of it. Wigan got hold of a good lower league club in an expansion area and worked with them to offer a pathway to an entire new player-pool. As well as using them as a breeding ground for welsh players and a local club for fitness etc.

Leeds got hold a lower league expansion club, somewhere they had previously done some good development work. They are using them as a new player pathway to get access to an entire new player-pool. They have also got together with a local club and come up with a fantastic plan to help youth development in the entire city right from the lowest levels and age groups through to SL, a really positive innovation.

Some others just registered their squads wholesale and then wondered why they weren’t making the best use of it.'"


You mean like a very senior player playing one match for an example Swinton?

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Wire are making a mockery of Duel Reg, i think more as a protest, they are using every single loop hole and silly rule to show it for what it is, a farce.

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Quote: Horatio Yed "Wire are making a mockery of Duel Reg, i think more as a protest, they are using every single loop hole and silly rule to show it for what it is, a farce.'"

I would agree. Saints have done something similar, bringing Gardner back from injury via Whitehaven and sending Makinson to Rochdale and Whitehaven to get his form up (Makinson is 22).

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“I am over the innovative tag for rugby league, that we are innovative as a sport. I’m over it. What about being stable, strong, consistent? What about those being our traits? I am also going to say that we have been producing some really good young players, so much so that the Australians are coming here to take them. We are starting to produce some half backs, outside backs, types of players that we have not produced for years, and yet we change the system again. We take away that production system, take away the responsibility for clubs to produce those players and we go to a system that is ‘popular’ by all accounts." - Tony Smith, May 2013.

............................

I am aware we have a thread which focuses on Tony's views on the Salford punishment, but this part touches on the real issue here, which I agree with wholeheartedly. Rugby League and its fans have to ACCEPT that the 'quality' will be down while we encourage home grown player development through having no promotion / relegation and through limiting the NRL imports.

We HAVE to give the current arrangement time to bear fruit because:

1. There are far more new British players coming on stream now than ever before in the Super League era. NRL can pick 3 national sides which would beat ours, we need the same pot of talent to compete with them.

2. The league is more open than it has been in the SL era, new teams are challenging because of point 1 above.

3. GB / England is getting stronger as a result of point 1 above.

All of these are true, IMO, but I will go one further:

The RFL and SL's CONSTANT tinkering over the past 20 years have made our sport appear small time, pathetic, lacking any credibility. The continous changing of the structure of the leagues / playoffs has been allowed to happen far too much, almost to the point of being embarrassing. Nobody outside our sport knows how the hell it works FFS! How can we attract people to a sport nobody undrstands?

The Super League title's prestige is being stamped on - you almost have to ask what the rules were when Team X or Team Y won the SL title, and decide how big an achievement it was.

FOR GOD'S SAKE RFL / SL - LEAVE THE STRUCTURE ALONE FOR 10 - 15 yrs AND LET OUR GAME's TOP PRIZE GET SOME GRAVITY AND CREDIBILITY BACK BEFORE YOU RUIN IT FOREVER.

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Quote: Viking Vengeance " We HAVE to give the current arrangement time to bear fruit because

Yes, but all he above has been acheived through clubs having to run two Academies and being able to develop players into their early 20s. Now we've scrapped that and limited it to u19. Any 19+ SL players not needed in first team are then foisted onto Championship clubs who previously had their own squads. Hence reducing the numbers of young players playing professional RL. And furthering a gradual decline of the Championships - that comp was already struggling without auto Promotion. It is now really struggling for integtrity operating as a part SL Reserves league.

So, the Academies DO need further change, the simplest and best one in my opinion being to introduce the u23s that was originally recommended.

Him
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Quote: SEB "Yes, but all he above has been acheived through clubs having to run two Academies and being able to develop players into their early 20s. Now we've scrapped that and limited it to u19. Any 19+ SL players not needed in first team are then foisted onto Championship clubs who previously had their own squads. Hence reducing the numbers of young players playing professional RL. And furthering a gradual decline of the Championships - that comp was already struggling without auto Promotion. It is now really struggling for integtrity operating as a part SL Reserves league.

So, the Academies DO need further change, the simplest and best one in my opinion being to introduce the u23s that was originally recommended.'"

I'd agree that an u23's comp would be best, or even the old u20's with overage exemptions, but I don't agree with the part about the Championships. Those clubs don't have to accept or play any SL reserve players at all if they don't want to.

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Quote: Him "I'd agree that an u23's comp would be best, or even the old u20's with overage exemptions, but I don't agree with the part about the Championships. Those clubs don't have to accept or play any SL reserve players at all if they don't want to.'"


No, they don't have to. But the option is very clearly there and the fact we have some clubs doing it and some not just increases the farce. I think the Championship clubs should be treated with more respect and encouraged to grow and be strong enough in their own right without filling their team with "borrowed" SL players. Imagine if Swinton had drawn Warrington in the Challenge Cup - it would have been utter farce.

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Most fans seem to think that the changes to the academy structure are a backward step and although there may be a monetary saving, there is a negative cost to the game and the dual reg has become utter farce.

Top level internationals on dual reg contracts is just taking the mickey, what do the outside world think.

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Quote: wrencat1873 "Most fans seem to think that the changes to the academy structure are a backward step and although there may be a monetary saving, there is a negative cost to the game and the dual reg has become utter farce.

Top level internationals on dual reg contracts is just taking the mickey, what do the outside world think.'"


Works in Australia

43 posts in 4 pages 
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