Westerman isnt a 13, never has been never will be. Likes to hide out wide to much.

I think Westerman looked like being the real deal at Cas. For some reason he's gone backwards at Hull.

Danny Washbrook has been a revelation since joining Wakefield. Top tackler of the season by far, scored his fair share of tries, played in a half back/creative type role at times, whilst also working hard like a prop at other times. He's been brilliant, very underrated.

Would like to see Smith try Hill at 13 this year. Big lad who has suprising pace, a great step and good hands - coming through his youth as a 6 I understand.
His second season in SL will see him play a much more expansive role imo.

Can't argue there. Washbrook had a good game every time I saw him last year.

I'll second that. He even scored and made cover tackles in a wing position!

Early on in the season there were a few people I spoke to at games who said he was only in the team because he was a big mate of Agar. The end of season stats speak for themselves.

Aside from height and passing game, i think your description fits Larne Patrick at Hudds. Just a shame he fell away at the end of last year, when hes fit and hungry he's got all the attributes to be a top loose.

Westerman at the minute isn't a loose forward. He is a legs defender, and you can't carry two legs defenders in the 'middle bank' of the field. He's better suited on an edge. A legs tackle is much quicker and less effective in the modern game than a 10-12 second ball/torso tackle.

A player I would like to see have a crack at loose forward is Justin Hodges. He's a big stong boy, makes meters in the middle and always gets an arm free. Solid defender too.

As stated before i dont belive There is one answer for what you would class as an " out and out loose" it depends on what the coach wants that position to add to the team. e.g another tough man up the middle of the park, that will do the hard yards (Paul Gallen) Or someone with a creative mind, a third half back if you like, with a kicking game (Kevin Brown)

Some teams play a 13 down one side, Andy Farrell did it for Wigan and I seem to remember Paul Cooke doing it as well.

If you were playing a ball playing loose forward, you'd have him defend 3rd or 4th in off the edge anyway, rather than in the middle four.

I see Westerman as a wide running second row, FWIW.

I see your point, yet it would effect a teams shape. If playing a 'pivot' style 13, he would have to defend 3/4 in, next to another pivot. I think it's much, much smarter to go with banks of 4 in defence, middle and two egde's.

I take peoples point of a loose playing on an edge, you'll see Gallen do it a lot at Cronulla down the left, but he'll always be replaced by someone in the middle, more often than not it has been Jeremy Smith over the past couple of years down the counter balance.

For me, a loose forward doesn't need to be a pivot anymore, but should offer an offload. A pre-requisite of a modern day full back is to be a pivot. If a hooker, two halves and a fullback can't pass from one side line to another, why put in another pivot to 'carry' in defence?

i expect brett ferres to go very well at loose forward next season for the giants, played really well back end of last season for us and with a good pre season will go well.
alongside o'donnell and chan.. or lawrence..or ta'ai!! options.

That's pretty much how most teams play now. The third pivot being the fullback, and the loose forward being effectively an extra prop and defending the middle four along with the front row.
If you did have a ball playing loose you wanted to protect in defence, you would swap his defensive spot usually with the right side second row - that's why Chris Joynt used to complain when he had to play on the right

I expect to see many teams start putting their hookers to one of the edge units as we move on, particularly if not carrying a second hooker on the bench.