because they're a) Australian and (in Johns' case) b) retired (as a player after a drugs scandal and as state coach after a racist comment scandal)

Until he becomes a team player and develops some consistency (he can't be ar**d in the small games, can choke in big games and sometimes lets his niggly petulant temper affect his game) he's a country mile off being an International player. If and when he grows up and learns to control himself he might have a chance.

When people start citing the likes of Todd Carney and Greg Bird as examples of players England should have in their squad then I know the world has gone crazy

I wouldn't mind if they were world class (like Johns and Inglis) but both decidedly average

it was an illustration of the type of game breaking players that mcN woud exclude with his criteria. HTH.

if they are decidedly average then everyone bar 4/5 British players are cr*p.

Amazing that someone that you term decidedly average won the dally M award in 2010 and is rated by Brian Smith and Tim Sheens. having seen Carney play a few times in sydney this year I think he is in a different class to anyone in the UK.

Steve McN is right to avoid difficult characters. He is not up to coaching them.

OK, maybe I was a little harsh on Bird and Carney - they are good players. The same as the New Zealand and England squad has good players

However, they are nowhere near the likes of Johns and Inglis who are probably the best two rugby players of the past decade (if not more)

As an England fan, I would be happy to see the names Bird and Carney on the Aussie team sheet this Autumn

Danny Brough on top form, yes.
Danny Brough with his usual levels of inconsistency, no

His kicking game is better than all the other options we have in the squad, but his inconsistency and attitude works against him.

As many have pointed out, the England squad is not exactly brimming with world class players. The only way that they're going to do well is if they play as a true team, one where players run their blood to water for each other. Taking someone with a suspect attitude and a tendency towards disruptive is, therefore, out of the question as you are stuck with them at close-quarters for 6 weeks!.

(I remember Kear being a guest at one of the Giants' televised games and saying something like - "of course, that's the other side of Danny boy" just after he'd been giving some of his new team-mates his thoughts on their performance. Brown pulled him off the field in the next 5 minutes).

This is nowhere near enough. To beat NZ and Oz we need gamebreakers.

Without players with flair and talent we will lose. With them we may still lose but with them we have a shot at winning.

Brough has an outstanding kicking game and his attitude has improved significantly. I am also happy he is not going on the tour. It means Nathan Brown can have a longer pre season with Danny. Nathan is very good working with hookers and halves (Moore, Robbo and Lunt have all got international calls while coached by NB) and will make Brough a far better player.

Its a pointless argument. Brough is Scottish.

since that game when Brown took Brough off the field, Brough's attitude has improved out of site, his consistancy is up there, as has been said from good to brilliant (one poor game, a feat shared by the other 16 giants against cas notwithstanding) and he most certainly can be a game breaker.

What it took was for a coach and a good team around him to show him he wasnt the only decent player at the club.

Nathan Brown may well have suppressed some of Brough's personality 'rough edges'. But come on guys - a touring party is not the same environment as a club. Those guys are stuck with each other for company for 6 weeks!

Briers easily outshining him in the cc and last week against Scotland. Brough has about 2 good games a year then is anonymous.

He managed many more last season.

Keep hearing that Brough is inconsistant, but at Wakefield he was our best player on a consistant basis (over 2 and a bit years, saw this with my own eyes Mark). It sounds like since finding his feet at Hudds he has found his form again on a regular basis (Code 13 alluded to this). I think the notion that Brough is an inconsistant is a bit of a myth myself. I find it ironic that a Wire fan can talk about Brough being inconsistant then put forward Briers who i think blows very hot and cold.