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Could be your reliance on sugar daddy or your fear of where you will be when he has gone.

Huddersfield were a joke prior to SL and a joke for many years in SL, until they went down and rebuilt with Daveys cash.

There is little difference between many heartlands clubs, its just that some are in and some aren't - if Hudds had spent all but one year outside SL, what gates would you be getting? Same question to Wakey, Cas, Salford, HKR etc HKR were 1500 or less in the lower leagues for many years, Hudds were shocking when there, even worse before AJM came in the 80's?

We have a choice to exclude or include, imo exclusion isn't working and killing the game outside SL

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Yes, the old Fartown club was in a shocking state until a group of directors came along to properly run the club - since then the club has climbed from the gutter to the top of the pile.

I still dont see your point. Maybe its because you dont actually have one, but instead are very, very bitter.

They climbed up the ladder with full P&R by the way, from the bottom of division 3 to the top of superleague, earning promotion on the field, not through franchising. So whats your point?

The year before we first got promoted the fartowners were getting crowds of 3-4000 by the way, sorry if that unravells your conspiracy theory.

Having seen my club at the very, very bottom (something that precious few other fans have seen) and climb to the very, very top on the back of P&R I still say that the current system is by far and away the BEST system I have ever seen in the game, and if the Giants were still languishing in the championship I would feel EXACTLY the same way, why, because I know how bad the game had got.

So, again, what on earth is your point?

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“You are playing a game of football this afternoon but more than that you are playing for England, and more even than that, you are playing for right versus wrong. You will win because you have to win. Don’t forget that message from home. England expects every one of you to do his duty.”:1230.gif



The problem isn't promotion, it's relegation. It seems the licensing process is there to ensure that clubs that are massively in debt and need the money are permanently guaranteed a piece of the sky pie, rather than to ensure well run clubs are in the top division.

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Quote: "The problem is that we currently only have 7 clubs good enough for a 'super' league.
'"


Isn't that progress rather than one team winning everything like we saw with Wigan.

Look at all the youngsters playing in the first teams. We wouldn't have seen that previously

Sadly Fax, Fev and Co will never be in SL-Accept it

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Quote: Hopie "The problem isn't promotion, it's relegation. It seems the licensing process is there to ensure that clubs that are massively in debt and need the money are permanently guaranteed a piece of the sky pie, rather than to ensure well run clubs are in the top division.'"


What complete tosh.

What well run clubs are there waiting to come into Super League?
And if they are so well run, surely its just a matter of time that they get into the top flight?

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Quote from Code 13: "They climbed up the ladder with full P&R by the way, from the bottom of division 3 to the top of superleague, earning promotion on the field, not through franchising. So whats your point?"

That avenue has now been cut off to most of the Rugby League as we have been effectively disenfranchised. That is our point

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Quote: wire quin "Isn't that progress rather than one team winning everything like we saw with Wigan.

Look at all the youngsters playing in the first teams. We wouldn't have seen that previously

Sadly Fax, Fev and Co will never be in SL-Accept it'"



It would be if the other 7 clubs didn't take it in turns to go belly up each year.

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[b:112mouem][color=#0000FF:112mouem][size=100:112mouem] "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."― Albert Einstein[/size:112mouem] [/color:112mouem][/b:112mouem] [b:112mouem][color=#0000FF:112mouem][size=100:112mouem] "Everybody gets so much information all day long that they lose their common sense." ― Gertrude Stein[/size:112mouem][/color:112mouem][/b:112mouem] [b:112mouem][color=#0000FF:112mouem][size=100:112mouem] "Don't believe everything you read on the internet" ― Abraham Lincoln [/size:112mouem][/color:112mouem][/b:112mouem]:13050.gif



Quote: Code13 "

Franchising is in place to stop teams killing themselves trying to win the league when it's nothing more than a lottery.

'"


Its working well. icon_surprised.gifops:

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[b:112mouem][color=#0000FF:112mouem][size=100:112mouem] "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."― Albert Einstein[/size:112mouem] [/color:112mouem][/b:112mouem] [b:112mouem][color=#0000FF:112mouem][size=100:112mouem] "Everybody gets so much information all day long that they lose their common sense." ― Gertrude Stein[/size:112mouem][/color:112mouem][/b:112mouem] [b:112mouem][color=#0000FF:112mouem][size=100:112mouem] "Don't believe everything you read on the internet" ― Abraham Lincoln [/size:112mouem][/color:112mouem][/b:112mouem]:13050.gif



Quote: JonB95 "you're right, but isn't that gap just going to become greater in the current format?'"


It dosnt matter. A team could finish bottom of the league over and over and get flogged every week and it wouldnt matter.

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[b:112mouem][color=#0000FF:112mouem][size=100:112mouem] "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."― Albert Einstein[/size:112mouem] [/color:112mouem][/b:112mouem] [b:112mouem][color=#0000FF:112mouem][size=100:112mouem] "Everybody gets so much information all day long that they lose their common sense." ― Gertrude Stein[/size:112mouem][/color:112mouem][/b:112mouem] [b:112mouem][color=#0000FF:112mouem][size=100:112mouem] "Don't believe everything you read on the internet" ― Abraham Lincoln [/size:112mouem][/color:112mouem][/b:112mouem]:13050.gif



Quote: Leyther_Matt "You can't use Widnes as any basis for P&R purely because they weren't the best Championship team last season, or indeed any season since 2001.'"


Yeah its a touch unfair people expecting Widnes to be competitive when they wernt even that competitive in the Championship.

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Quote: headhunter "You are seriously attempting to use the newly promoted team being beaten by 76 points as an argument for yearly promotion and relegation?'"


they finished 5th, Leigh put 50+ points past them twice last season.

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thing is, under Neil Kelly when Widnes got promoted to SL, in their 1st season finished 6th.

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Quote: Budgiezilla "thing is, under Neil Kelly when Widnes got promoted to SL, in their 1st season finished 6th.'"

And even then they were miles away from finishing top of the table in the old NFP in their promotion year. I'd throw in a wink but it still hurts 11 years on!

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Quote: Budgiezilla "they finished 5th, Leigh put 50+ points past them twice last season.'"
thankfully the RFL don't care about that!

i don't see why so many fans fail to understand that the current system is all about what you do off the field and not on it! yes it'd be nice to have P&R but sadly there is neither the money or a big enough player pool for that to be a reality at the minute; super league teams use to spend money they didn't have trying to stop themselves going down, mainly throwing it at average aussies, and the championship clubs would do the same trying to come up. Then when it was actually decided who was going down / coming up, they would have to go out and sign virtually a complete new squad as the gap is too wide to keep the same players. None of which helped improve the player pool and/or talent, increased the wider appeal of the sport, made it more appealing for neutral fans, etc

Whilst I do think the RFL have got many things wrong*, including some things in the current system (i.e. too many teams, not enforcing the quota/club trained rule well enough, etc), the reasoning for the system to be in place is excellent.


*sadly not helped by the 'me' culture and shortsightedness that's exists at most clubs. Just look at Bradford, the current management team have got the club into a big mess but are still unwilling to give the club over to someone else because "they're the best people to take the club forward..."

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suppose so, but frustrating to be a fan of a club (with ambition) knowing it maybe 2015, 2018, or 2021 before you get THAT opportunity. I know Widnes fans might not be enjoying this season too much, and I hated our 2005 SL season - I was chuffed when we didn't get thrashed. It's a pity the 'gulf' is SO big between SL & championship clubs, footie clubs do OK in their 1st season in the premiership.

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