FORUMS > The Virtual Terrace > What can our clubs learn from Wasps RU |
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 17980 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Apr 2011 | 14 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
simpsons/simp006.gif :simpsons/simp006.gif |
|
| Quote: SmokeyTA "if Wasps can do this, Why couldn't the RFL?
Why couldn't the game build a 20k stadium with a casino, hotel, conference centre, etc, in say Wakefield, and have both clubs rent it, providing 2 clubs with facilities and making the game money?
Is it only because people would complain of favouritism?'"
Why would the RFL build a stadium for club rugby to be played ?
This is an issue for the individual clubs
With regard to Wasps, credit where it's due, it appears to be an incredible turn around.
It would be interesting to see just how many Wasps fans that attended games previously are making the trip to The Rioch in Coventry.
Maybe it shows that modern day sport is more about cash than "sport" but, we are where we are.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 22777 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
May 2006 | 18 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jun 2020 | Feb 2018 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
//www.pngnrlbid.com
[quote="bUsTiNyAbALLs":9q9d2t35]Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.[/quote:9q9d2t35]
[quote="vastman":9q9d2t35]My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.[/quote:9q9d2t35]: |
|
| Quote: The Avenger "If the RFL were to build such a complex it would have to have a larger stadium or it wouldn't work. The sports major events with the exception of The Challenge Cup and Grand Final would have to be played there.
CC semi finals
Magic weekend
Major Play Off Games
Internationals
Your and Junior Internationals
What you'd be creating is a smaller version of Twickenham'"
Do we get much more than 20k to those games? (bar internationals where we should 'go big' in at least some). And im not sure if I would put the magic weekend there, butIm fine if we went 25/30k but that might be a bit big for those two clubs (though im nothing if not ambitious for the game)
But 28 league games, 2 cc semi finals, Championship grand final/million pound gimmick, C1 GF, League 1 cup final, Summer Bash, is a fair amount of events there.
No reason we couldn't put other events on there, a proper 9s comp, some internationals etc.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 22777 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
May 2006 | 18 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jun 2020 | Feb 2018 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
//www.pngnrlbid.com
[quote="bUsTiNyAbALLs":9q9d2t35]Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.[/quote:9q9d2t35]
[quote="vastman":9q9d2t35]My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.[/quote:9q9d2t35]: |
|
| Quote: wrencat1873 "Why would the RFL build a stadium for club rugby to be played ?
This is an issue for the individual clubs
'" Why?
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 1519 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2007 | 18 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
May 2019 | May 2019 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
32199.jpg :32199.jpg |
|
| Quote: GIANT DAZ "Huddersfield Giants have a 20% stake on the Stadium, so do own a part of it !'"
well why pay for more than you actually use
|
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Board Member | 14970 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jun 2002 | 22 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2021 | Nov 2021 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
2244_1299706258.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_2244.jpg |
|
| Quote: SmokeyTA "if Wasps can do this, Why couldn't the RFL?
Why couldn't the game build a 20k stadium with a casino, hotel, conference centre, etc, in say Wakefield, and have both clubs rent it, providing 2 clubs with facilities and making the game money?
Is it only because people would complain of favouritism?'"
I agree to a point though it would come down to the fine details. How would the income be split between the 2 clubs and the RFL?
If it goes to the 2 clubs how does the RFL get its money back? If it goes to the RFL how do the 2 clubs expand?
I quite like the idea though, just I always thought the 2 clubs were very much against sharing a ground? Although I'd always thought it was by far the best way for both clubs to thrive.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Board Member | 14970 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jun 2002 | 22 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2021 | Nov 2021 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
2244_1299706258.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_2244.jpg |
|
| Quote: GIANT DAZ "Huddersfield Giants have a 20% stake on the Stadium, so do own a part of it !'"
I may be wrong but I thought when Uncle Ken bought the football team that he put the whole 60% of his ownership, ie both the football and rugby club ownership share into one seperate company. And IIRC the football club bought part of that not long ago.
But either way a 20% share wouldn't allow you to do much to expand. Though I'm not saying Hudds are in a bad position with the stadium.
|
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Board Member | 28186 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Apr 2003 | 22 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Aug 2016 | Aug 2016 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
Transparent Backgrounds/Waldorf.gif "As you travel through life don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things" - George Carlin
[url:2cg5oc2o]http://twitter.com/AndyGilder[/url:2cg5oc2o]
[url:2cg5oc2o]http://fromthewesternterrace.blogspot.co.uk[/url:2cg5oc2o]
This week: Four keys to a Rhinos win in the WCC:Transparent Backgrounds/Waldorf.gif |
|
| Quote: Him "I agree to a point though it would come down to the fine details. How would the income be split between the 2 clubs and the RFL?
If it goes to the 2 clubs how does the RFL get its money back? If it goes to the RFL how do the 2 clubs expand?
I quite like the idea though, just I always thought the 2 clubs were very much against sharing a ground? Although I'd always thought it was by far the best way for both clubs to thrive.'"
The big issue is what happens with catering/conference income etc. If it all goes to the RFL, then the clubs end up being deprived of what in their own stadiums would be a lucrative income stream - just look at how much money flows into Headingley through non-matchday use for example.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 1519 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2007 | 18 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
May 2019 | May 2019 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
32199.jpg :32199.jpg |
|
| What's the deal in Oz where a lot of the Sydney clubs play at Olympic Park (or whatever it is called now) or SFS?
|
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 22777 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
May 2006 | 18 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jun 2020 | Feb 2018 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
//www.pngnrlbid.com
[quote="bUsTiNyAbALLs":9q9d2t35]Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.[/quote:9q9d2t35]
[quote="vastman":9q9d2t35]My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.[/quote:9q9d2t35]: |
|
| Quote: Him "I agree to a point though it would come down to the fine details. How would the income be split between the 2 clubs and the RFL?
If it goes to the 2 clubs how does the RFL get its money back? If it goes to the RFL how do the 2 clubs expand?
I quite like the idea though, just I always thought the 2 clubs were very much against sharing a ground? Although I'd always thought it was by far the best way for both clubs to thrive.'"
I think those details are of less importance. it should be easy to work out a structure that benefits all parties.
But that is, where I think the biggest resistance comes from. People don't want other clubs thriving.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 22777 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
May 2006 | 18 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jun 2020 | Feb 2018 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
//www.pngnrlbid.com
[quote="bUsTiNyAbALLs":9q9d2t35]Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.[/quote:9q9d2t35]
[quote="vastman":9q9d2t35]My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.[/quote:9q9d2t35]: |
|
| Quote: Andy Gilder "The big issue is what happens with catering/conference income etc. If it all goes to the RFL, then the clubs end up being deprived of what in their own stadiums would be a lucrative income stream - just look at how much money flows into Headingley through non-matchday use for example.'"
It could easily be worked out im sure. Even if it came down to running it as an SMC with each party owning a 3rd of it.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 28357 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
May 2024 | Oct 2019 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
973_1515165968.gif Last edited by Ferocious Aardvark on stardate Jun 26, 3013 11:27 am, edited 48,562,867,458,300,023 times in total:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_973.gif |
|
| I don't know anything about the Wasps deal save what I've read, but the comment that if all is as it appears to be, then the deal will have cost an arm and a leg is indisputably true. So their gates have initially gone up. So what? The main questions you would need to be able to answer are:
1. What does it cost to service the investment/borrowing? because those charges need to be paid before there is any surplus.
2. Who put up the money? Because if there is a profit at the end of the day then the "investors" will want it. Unless there is a billionaire who is happy to lose many millions a year, permanently, just cos he likes Wasps.
If there really is that much money to be made from casinos, hotels, Zumba nights or whatever at the Ricoh then how come no shrewd billionaires or other companies national or international were remotely interested prior to the Wasps deal? Yet there is, apparently, not only enough money to be made to service the acquisition finance and running costs, turn a healthy profit for investors, but also to make Wasps a wealthy rugby club out of presumably the small change.
I'm not remotely buying into this hype. It is all spin. I don't blame Wasps as a club for taking advantage of it but there are no lessons to be learned here.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Board Member | 28186 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Apr 2003 | 22 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Aug 2016 | Aug 2016 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
Transparent Backgrounds/Waldorf.gif "As you travel through life don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things" - George Carlin
[url:2cg5oc2o]http://twitter.com/AndyGilder[/url:2cg5oc2o]
[url:2cg5oc2o]http://fromthewesternterrace.blogspot.co.uk[/url:2cg5oc2o]
This week: Four keys to a Rhinos win in the WCC:Transparent Backgrounds/Waldorf.gif |
|
| Presumably the leisure bond issue is a way of getting some or all of the cash back to those who funded the purchase ASAP. All it then does however is pass the servicing of the bonds on to the next generation of people in charge of the club, who are faced with making sufficient money to be able to pay the return to investors.
Course, there's a cynical view to be taken here. Leisure bonds don't - AFAIK - have any cover under the FSCS. So if you sink your money into one and Wasps are unable to pay a return on it, you've got no compensation in the way you would have if you'd kept that money in your bank account and your bank had gone bust. So a couple of years down the line what's to stop Wasps running themselves into the ground, liquidating, phoenixing under a different company structure/directors and the bond holders ending up with nothing?
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 17146 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
755_1290430740.jpg “At last, a real, Tory budget,” Daily Mail 24/9/22
"It may be that the honourable gentleman doesn't like mixing with his own side … but we on this side have a more convivial, fraternal spirit." Jacob Rees-Mogg 21/10/21
A member of the Guardian-reading, tofu-eating wokerati.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_755.jpg |
|
| I'm tempted to say it shows you can polish turd. But that would be infantile & show my jealousy of yawnion crowds.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 478 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Mar 2015 | 10 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jul 2015 | Jul 2015 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
73709_1429825842.png [b:3lwchg41][size=100:3lwchg41]February 9th 2008. Harlequins Rugby League v Wigan Warriors; Attendance [color=#FF0000:3lwchg41]8,041[/color:3lwchg41]
Entire 2015 Season over 11 games: Total Attendance[color=#FF0000:3lwchg41] 8,050[/color:3lwchg41].
PROGRESS[/size:3lwchg41][/b:3lwchg41]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_73709.png |
|
| Quote: Ferocious Aardvark "I don't know anything about the Wasps deal save what I've read, but the comment that if all is as it appears to be, then the deal will have cost an arm and a leg is indisputably true. So their gates have initially gone up. So what? The main questions you would need to be able to answer are
Hmm...where to begin?
First up, the borrowing. If there is actually any "borrowing" involved, rather than a Ken Davy/David Hughes type insane beneficiary situation, then it will be minimal, given the current interest rates in the EU. Secondly, as I have already alluded to, if it's a benefactor, then who cares? Benefactors will make decision that in the end are meant to make the clubs self sufficient.......WASPS buy a stadium (share of) and eventually the reliance on their benefactor is reduced......it's good business....the RFL bought your lease and how's that working out for you?????/ or them for that matter????
Then there's your comment about money to be made from the casino this from someone who believed "pub boy and carpet mans" plans for the bulls including belinda carlisle concerts and the coral lounge for weddings was the answer
Wasps have made a decent start at the new stadium,........they average 16k+ and they own a chunk of the action. They are now looking to raise more revenue through a funding issue......they are making progress......let's not allow your bitterness get in the way here......after all, your club owns nothing, owes everything and is in the 2nd tier....for at leat another year or so.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 230 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Nov 2014 | 10 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Oct 2015 | Oct 2015 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
: |
|
| Quote: Ferocious Aardvark "I don't know anything about the Wasps deal save what I've read, but the comment that if all is as it appears to be, then the deal will have cost an arm and a leg is indisputably true. So their gates have initially gone up. So what? The main questions you would need to be able to answer are
The owner loaned Wasps £20million and will be getting half back from the bond issue, the rest going to pay off other loans and investment in the clubs academy etc. As for being 'hype and spin', they have sold out the 32,000 stadium for the game v Leicester Tigers next week (something CCFC couldn't do) including 2000 hospitality seats (they used to average 200 at Adams Park). Most sporting clubs would love that hype and spin'. As for what RL clubs can learn, if you're going to invest in a new/existing stadium, make sure it's a half-decent one like Langtree Park.
|
|
|
|
|
|