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The only solution is to grow the game - there is no quick fix.

That entails, inter alia:

1. Increasing player supply, which involves massively increasing the numbers regularly participating at grass-roots level, especially kids.

2. Get the game played at all levels, especially Super League level in larger towns / cities over a more widespread area of the country.

3. Greatly increasing spectator numbers watching the professional game.

4. More, meaningful international matches.

It'll be an uphill battle based on lack of success historically, especially as the RFU apparently has a policy of picking of the games legends and players at any time the game looks like growing via TV exposure.

It all comes back to money and planning. Two things the game never seem to have had.

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I don't think we really have a problem with players leaving, If the RU fill the England side with our players it can only reflect well on our game as we are obviously doing something the RU & its clubs can't. What IMO is the real problem is the uncertainty that all clubs suffer from as they can't plan in the longer term as no matter what they do some bright spark will come along & move the goal posts. What ever we decide we should stick to it for at least 10 years or more. We have to ensure clubs can be certain that investing in the ground & youth won't be a burden if suddenly they loose all their best youngsters to another club because someone decides it is time to scrap the cap. I follow a mid table club who have made a good go of super league our ground is vastly improved, & we are starting to produce young players that could be our future, but we are struggling to keep them we have lost two good lads to bigger clubs ( & you can not blame them chasing trophy's its not money) take away the cap & what is the point of spending on youth only to loose them to big money clubs? I suppose the only way would be to tie them into long contracts but would any agent let their client do it? or would many clubs risk it?e

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kcab sfrawdder Luck is a combination of preparation and opportunity Just to avoid confusion Starbug is the username of Steven Pike SOMEBODY SAID that it couldn’t be done But he with a chuckle replied That “maybe it couldn’t,” but he would be one Who wouldn’t say so till he’d tried. So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin On his face. If he worried he hid it. He started to sing as he tackled the thing That couldn’t be done, and he did it!:9005.jpg



Quote: Beverley red "I don't think we really have a problem with players leaving, If the RU fill the England side with our players it can only reflect well on our game as we are obviously doing something the RU & its clubs can't. What IMO is the real problem is the uncertainty that all clubs suffer from as they can't plan in the longer term as no matter what they do some bright spark will come along & move the goal posts. What ever we decide we should stick to it for at least 10 years or more. We have to ensure clubs can be certain that investing in the ground & youth won't be a burden if suddenly they loose all their best youngsters to another club because someone decides it is time to scrap the cap. I follow a mid table club who have made a good go of super league our ground is vastly improved, & we are starting to produce young players that could be our future, but we are struggling to keep them we have lost two good lads to bigger clubs ( & you can not blame them chasing trophy's its not money) take away the cap & what is the point of spending on youth only to loose them to big money clubs? I suppose the only way would be to tie them into long contracts but would any agent let their client do it? or would many clubs risk it?e'"


Its called ' life ' , I started up a business 20 years ago, employed schooleavers as it was a relatively new industry and needed new skills unavailable from a job centre, many of those people left and now work at companies that have now put me out of business

Why should any lower tier clubs run juniors? , why should amatuer clubs bother?

You do the best you can do, but as your club is doing you also look to build the off pitch, the bottom line is if you build then eventually you will be strong enough to retain or even entice the best from the clubs who are currently higher up the ladder than you

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Quote: Starbug "Its called ' life ' , I started up a business 20 years ago, employed schooleavers as it was a relatively new industry and needed new skills unavailable from a job centre, many of those people left and now work at companies that have now put me out of business

Why should any lower tier clubs run juniors? , why should amatuer clubs bother?

You do the best you can do, but as your club is doing you also look to build the off pitch, the bottom line is if you build then eventually you will be strong enough to retain or even entice the best from the clubs who are currently higher up the ladder than you'"

I agree I have worked in aviation for over 45 years were training costs are exorbitant to the point were no one unless they have guaranteed long term contracts will invest in training. They are chasing an ever decreasing pool of skilled people (OK for us with the skills as pay keeps going up) but it is not good for the industry. The same goes for our game In aviation we bond people who are given training my last bond was £18,000 if I leave I have to pay it back or as is more likely the company I move to has to pick up the cost, Maybe clubs could try bonding young players then if the big club comes along they at least get the money back if not the time invested. If the club releases that player no bond to pay back. We just have to create a stable long term system that encourages & rewards investment.

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Problems / solutions:

1. Too many teams in Superleague and not enough quality players to staff them. Would rather have less teams and higher quality, more intense, matches with a proper international schedule.

This reflects on viewer interest - who wants to pay £20 to watch London Broncos play Widnes on a Saturday night when they could be down the pub getting bolloxed.

2. Lack of a credible international scene means NRL or Union are the only 2 places to go once you have maxed-out on what you can achieve in Superleague.

3. Union pays more.

4. Union has a higher profile. The NRL has a higher profile.

5. Superleague has struggled to expand beyond the M62 corridor, with the only successful expansion club being Les Cats. See point 4.

6. League is largely played in small, unfashionable, northern towns, populated by working-class individuals with limited incomes. This then reflects on the amount of money sponsors and investors are willing to put into the game. Not much we can do about this.

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regards and ENJOY your sport Leaguefan "The Public wants what the Public gets" - Paul Weller:icons077e_files/5885-54zedonite-msnicons.jpg



Quote: The Video Ref "Problems / solutions

Look at Starbugs "signature" panel for possibilities.

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Quote: gutterfax "I agree about acceptance, but not passive acceptance!
Melbourne Storm are a good example of how a games governing body and premier competition, in conjunction with major media partners, can establish a professional sports club in a new region with a view to it being close to self sufficient within 2 decades. It takes hard work and a lot of investment and then an awful lot more hard work, as well as total transparency as to the funding model being used.

If you want to see how not to do it, check out the rabble squatting at the Hive this year

Lol, storm have had over $90million more than any other NRL club from Central funding to make them "sustainable" and still require $4.6million a year re than anyone else to keep going. I am not sure you have given a very good example of how successful expansion can be!

SL can not match NRL or RU in financially competing, sad hut a harsh reality. Nor will it ever likely catch up. At least players going to NRL helps the international game.

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Quote: JB Down Under "Lol, storm have had over $90million more than any other NRL club from Central funding to make them "sustainable" and still require $4.6million a year re than anyone else to keep going. I am not sure you have given a very good example of how successful expansion can be!

SL can not match NRL or RU in financially competing, sad hut a harsh reality. Nor will it ever likely catch up. At least players going to NRL helps the international game.'"

True but for one sad fact we don't have an international game mainly due to the Southern hemisphere's total lack of interest. until we have the game in Europe will not get TV coverage of any note & will wither on the vine, non of which bothers 80% of the NRL clubs or management.

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In which case English RL needs to find a way to grow without Australia. Develop France and create a rivalry equal to that with Australia. Bring across Fiji, png etc and support their strengthening, focus on developing the domestic game into Wales to grow the international rivalry there. If Australia are not that interested then look to other nations to grow the international scene if that is what you think the English game needs.

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It was the RFL that decided to shift the game so that we had the same season as Australia. That killed Tours at a stroke, and Super League up here was as guilty as the Aussies in neglecting Test match football.
If we are to build a viable International scene then we have to make a long term commitment to European competitions, and consider Andrew Voss' idea that the World Cup should be every 2 years not 4 so we get competitions in each hemisphere every 4 years.

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Looking at the performances in the RLWC a European cup with teams with all those players available would be a great spectacle I reckon.
Eng, ire, scot, Wales, France with full strength teams would be well worth watching, sponsoring and showing on TV. Southern Hemisphere could do the same with a pacific cup featuring Fiji, Samoa, Tonga, PNG, NZ and AUs
Ashes tours v GB
RLWC
Tri nations of eng,NZ and AUs

That should be the international make up.
Throw in a summer sthern hemI world nines tournament and bingo.

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Quote: Charlie Sheen "Even if we scrapped the salary cap we still can't compete with the salary RU can offer, and we can't compete with the lifestyle Australia can offer. The only option we have is to produce more players and to improve the quality of the competition at all levels. There is no quick fix'"

If we allowed the ambitious money men like Koucash to fund wages outside of the Salary cap with his own money, then the dozen or so genuine british marquee players would be tied up in no time.
These are the guys who are going to be the target of Rugby union. If they are out of reach, then the union guys aren't going to be digging deep to poach Paul Clough and Daryl Goulding.

Allow player wages funded and guaranteed by a third party to count outside of the cap. So for instance, Warrington sign Sam Burgess/ Sonny Bill Williams and they are actually contracted to SJM Concerts.
SJM allocate the money to advertising.
Simon Moran will be happy as his money will actually go further as it won't get taxed when he takes it out of SJM (awaiting verification).
Should SJM go bust or become unable to honour the contract, the player becomes a free agent.

Clubs will then be able to fund high wages without crippling financial commitments and the risk of insolvency.

Bring this in and watch the chairmen race round with their begging bowls - they'll find sponsorship from everywhere.

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Quote: Offside Monkey "If we allowed the ambitious money men like Koucash to fund wages outside of the Salary cap with his own money, then the dozen or so genuine british marquee players would be tied up in no time.
These are the guys who are going to be the target of Rugby union. If they are out of reach, then the union guys aren't going to be digging deep to poach Paul Clough and Daryl Goulding.

Allow player wages funded and guaranteed by a third party to count outside of the cap. So for instance, Warrington sign Sam Burgess/ Sonny Bill Williams and they are actually contracted to SJM Concerts.
SJM allocate the money to advertising.
Simon Moran will be happy as his money will actually go further as it won't get taxed when he takes it out of SJM (awaiting verification).
Should SJM go bust or become unable to honour the contract, the player becomes a free agent.

Clubs will then be able to fund high wages without crippling financial commitments and the risk of insolvency.

Bring this in and watch the chairmen race round with their begging bowls - they'll find sponsorship from everywhere.'"


If the company they register the players to is based in the Seychelles then the players will avoid tax too giving them a further advantage! It's the first time I've ever heard of using shell company's for navigating the salary cap!

How many genuinely world class players have we actually lost to Union? The likes of eastmond and tomkins (j) we're good players, but it's hardly like they were the complete article when they were "poached" - potential to be, but we'll never know. If burgess goes it would be the first major win they've had. Juniors in the other hand I have no idea.

Nrl is the far bigger threat to top quality in super league at the moment. And that is a problem that runs thicker than money.

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Quote: nkpom "It was the RFL that decided to shift the game so that we had the same season as Australia. That killed Tours at a stroke, and Super League up here was as guilty as the Aussies in neglecting Test match football.
If we are to build a viable International scene then we have to make a long term commitment to European competitions, and consider Andrew Voss' idea that the World Cup should be every 2 years not 4 so we get competitions in each hemisphere every 4 years.'"

It had become evident by the 1988 tour that the ARL had started to focus on its competition as in the tour games the clubs put out reserve grade players, we never came across the top players until the test matches. the whole thing started to fall apart after that. I would love to be able to get by without Australia but it is the only other pro league. Union it is the international game that actually supports the game down under as it would collapse without international games. Just as we will here without a radical rethink, I just don't think the NRL clubs give a dam about us at all.

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Quote: screamy no6 "Of course money is a major factor with them going to the NRL. Say if Sam Burgess was being paid more in Super League than in the NRL would he be playing for the bunnies now ? I don't think so.

The cap needs to be removed for the sake of the sport in this country end of. Until that is so, the sport will continue to hit a brick wall time and time again.'"

Burgess took a pay cut to go to Souths.

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