I assume you missed brough's display for Scotland against the kiwis then. His place kicking kept the scoreline respectable due to the kiwis having to come out of their own half after them, his 40/20 gave the scottish a rare opportunity in the Kiwi's half and his breaks would have led to tries with better supporting backs.

Compare this with Chase's befuddled crossfield running, awful passing game and lack of any sort of understanding with the rest of the team. Oh he can pass the ball to himself though so i guess he doesn't need the understanding after all!

Brough played well for about 5 minutes, previous to that he failed to make touch with a penalty kick and made a total hash of a certain try. Had chase or Sinfield done either of these you would be foaming at the mouth with rage.

Brough has showed nothing in this tournement that makes me think he would have been the answer to England's prayers.

He spat his dummy out and chose Scotland that should tell you all you need to know about Danny Broughs commitment to Englamds WC campaign

England have done almost as much as could have been expected of them so far. The competition has been an outstanding success. There will be no shame if we lose to this NZ side.

And Chase's commitment to England? First Exiles test Chase said in an interview he hoped the game give him a chance to stake a selection for NZ! When he realise he wasn't getting in he decided he was English.

Brough didn't turn his back on Engkabd, Mcnamara didn't even select him in the squad mid season. Considering Chase & Sinfield are still our half backs, do you really think Brough had any chance of "fighting his way into the England squad"

He led Scotland out of a group they had little chance of qualifying from for their best ever World Cup performance.

lol at people moaning about negative fans.

I've been positive in the past. Only to see reality hammered home ruthlessly, again....and again....and again....AND AGAIN, year...after year.....

It's a crock of steaming sh*t.

Ferres wasn't in the squad mid season neither but he seems to be doing ok for England.

Brough DID turn his back on England

You assume wrong. Over all the matches he has played in he has been inconsistent.

I'm not defending chase, by the way, I just don't think Brough is the answer. Brough has nailed his colours to the mast - he does not consider himself English so if he wants to be a Jock, let him.

You assume wrong. Over all the matches he has played in he has been inconsistent.

I'm not defending chase, by the way, I just don't think Brough is the answer. Brough has nailed his colours to the mast - he does not consider himself English so if he wants to be a Jock, let him.

FFS, it's the forwards. It nearly always has been. They can't build a good enough platform for the full 80. They drop off.

Common problems for england which 99% occur in the pack:

Stupid penalties
Sloppy kick chase
unforced errors
a lack of domination in the collision both in defence and attack
failure to control the speed of the ruck, due to above.
Consistently losing the territorial battle, due to a combination of all of the above.

You can't have 20 minutes of good everything in the pack, then have all of the above creep in and claim the pack dominated. England have some good individuals in the pack, but not enough depth. The bench is never strong enough. Bringing the likes of farrell off the bench, they don't add any go forward, they are dominated by their opposite and that's when england really start to fall off the pace because they are unable to spell the better forwards.

Let me tell you what is going to happen against NZ. England will not be able to control the speed of the ruck. The collisions will be 50/50 at best and otherwise 70/30 in nz's favour. The forwards will struggle to lay any real platform, which means the NZ defence will be able to aim up and shut everything down with ease, field position will be scarce and they'll be some penalties and knock on's from the forwards thrown in.

...........And then people will come on here and say it was all the fault of Chase and sinfield.

I logged on tonight expecting people to realise that with Fiji dominating Samoa the New Zealand performances in a poor quality group have been put into context. Ah well, never underestimate the negativity of the rugby league fans

I expect this to happen in reverse. England will win the arm wrestle which will mitigate Luke's game as he has no creativity from a slow ruck and it will be the Kiwi's stamina and discipline that will suffer over the full 80

To the OP. I didn't even read the content of this thread because of the title.

How about you start a thread entitled.

[size=150Five reasons why England will beat NZ.[/size


Apologies but this is the typical English/British downtrodden attitude that permeates through our DNA. Get rid of it. I don't care how good the opposition are. Means nothing.

I believe England can win.