what he said..........

RL fans are their own worst enemy...........

Let's not worry about Yawnion.

Good marketing, competitive prices and genuine support instead of all the moaning and negativity. I've no idea why fans go out of their way to not support the support they follow whether it's a Magic weekend or Internationals

Lets not make RL a sport for victims.

Yet none of that attitude was evident in 95.
I wonder what's changed?

Simple fact is... we don't have a great team. If we did then I'm sure all the England games would sell-out.

RU only became what it is today through the 2003 RUWC.

The England cricket team only became so huge again through the 2005 Ashes series.

A win for England in the 2013 WC infront of a sell-out crowd at Wembley/Old Trafford would see Rugby League take a huge leap forward in this country.

Yes it was.

We had a poor 40k at Wembley for the opening game, and we were fortunate enough to get a win, which then gave the comp a boost.

There was then also the novelty value which attracted crowds like the one at Central Park (26k v Fiji).

Wales were in a different position, playing with players like Jonathan Davies, Allan Bateman, Kevin Ellis, Scott Quinnell etc. and were capable of drawing a crowd in Wales.

The marketing was certainly no better back then, the attitude was similar, except after the first game there was a genuine belief that England could win and become World Champions.

being a Public school product and involved in media and advertising, you'd be surprised at how much more I know about it than you.

I have an email, received from the RFL in early 2009 touting the naming rights for the 4 nations that year for less than it costs to sponsor the match ball at the england v Italy 6 nations game in ROME. I was asked to see if anyone in London would be interested in it........Gillette came in at th 11th hour to rescue them.

The failings of the RFL are simply highlighted by the expertise of the RFU.......there is no conspiracy. Mastercard don't attatch their name to the IRB RWC because their CEO went to Harrow.....,
Heinekens owners didn't all attend Eton together......and as far as I know, the Indian oners of Landrover have no public school connections either.........

I am tired of explaining that all forms of Media now dance to a funding piper.......as in, what attracts attention and advertising (funding) gets most airtime/column inches. The BBC show the challenge cup and get 1.5 million for the final...they average 4.5 million for all 15 games of the 6 nations. The RWC semi featuring wales got 6 million on FTA at stupid oclock in the morning........England in the 4 nations when played down here got 1.8 million......

Rugby League fans need to have a long hard look at themselves before attempting to blame anyone, even the RFL, for the chasm that has opened up between the 2 codes when it comes to revenue and exposure.

Did you even read the rest of my posts or just pick 1 bit out? I've never said that is the one and only reason, nor has anyone on this thread. It is a combination of reasons of which the public school network is but one. You seem to want to deny that public school network plays any part whatsoever in the ability to market the game, I'm not quite sure why when it's plain to see the influence it has. Is it the only reason, no. Is it one of them, yes.

At Huddersfield? Yes. At Wembley? I doubt it very much.

Staggeringly wrong.....so wrong it deserves a new word to describe its very wrongness. "bollxywongy"
The RWC 1987 started the ball rolling......professionalism gave it a massive heave and by the time England won it, Rugby Union was already massive when compared to the M62 Hobby we all love.


Pointless comparison in a debate about the 2 RUGBY codes......but
Define Huge? Same rich companies derided by other posters are the sponsors and corporates......winning helps, but Cricket is cricket and an excuse for 5 day drinking. 20-20 helped as well.....


Yep...same way winning a medal in Curling at the Winter Olympics made that team a household name....

BTW, using your logic, once the Aussies hammer either NZ or England in the final next year, we may as well up sticks and bugger off then



A win for England in the 2013 RLWC would be a start and might even get the team shown on BBC sports personality of the year, but they'd probably lose to the pursuit cycling team of a heavyweight boxer who came second. At which stage another thread will pop up here blaming the piblic schools for the abject failure of Rugby League to command the attention of the british public.




Utter drivel.
Sales people can come up with a multitude of excuses for failing to hit targets, but RL fans in the UK give them a good run for their money.



Your combination of reasons or perfect storm argument holds no water.....the FACTS are"
Saracens RU hired Wembley Stadium for a league game in the Aviva premiership and regardless of "bolloxwongy" accusations of free tickets etc, managed to attract 83,000+ to the game. As far as I know, the Headmasters at Eton and Harrow, nor the past pupils union of these schools, paid for any advertising or promotion. Neither did the Dons of Oxbridge, Sponge bob square pants or the dalai lama....but rather than accept that the marketing team at Sarries are good, RL fans bemoan the "influence" exerted by "them" against "us" to get fans to the game.

Magic weekend by contrast, is a friggin shambles, but if you are to be believed, this is only because the WRFU, Tom Jones and Darth Vader conspired against the event and organised a 100% media black out that even prevented the RFL from paying for promotion....

Seriously, the RFL has the best product and the best intentions, but some RL fans just don't get it. Rather than bitch about it on here, why not buy a ticket and support the game you say you love rather than whining about your misguided sense of injustice.

dunno how rugby union attracts non RU fans to these events but its an amazing effort. Most of the people at the game will probably never watch another RU game.

Now as for rugby league the fans have to take fair share of blame. always moaning about something!

4 nations at wembley was cheap but the usual lot still complained and never made the effort. Magic weekender is in Manchester this year, if we dont sell it out then again the fans will have shown their true colours.

Seriously, what the f[iu[/ick are you on about? I've not bitched or moaned about anything other than state the reasons why I think it's daft and simplistic to compare RFL with RFU marketing without taking into account the different situations of the 2 sports. I've certainly not criticised the RFU or belittled Saracens crowd at Wembley. It is only you who has mentioned any of these things or any sense of injustice.
If you don't think things like playing the sport at school has an effect on interest then I can only conclude you're either incredibly stupid or simply determined to have an argument because it suits your agenda.
Nobody on here has had anything other than praise for the RFU/Saracens marketing, so why are you suggesting otherwise. I suggest you actually read what people have written instead of jumping to your own little preconceived ideas.
I go to RFL events, I support the game, save your patronising attitude for someone else, because to totally dismiss the 2 sports different situations and simply say RFL are too stupid to market properly and the RFU are amazing is, as I said in my first post, simplistic and silly.

WTF...?

I calls it as I sees it:


..and to me, that's a bitching moan if ever I saw one.
More Money, more media, better partners and sponsors, well off london, rah rah piublic school toffs,,,,,,,blah blah blah it's not fair.

As for the RFL being too stupid.......exhibit A:

Richard Lewis, when commenting on the first Magic Weekend, cited expansion as a key reason for the event........but now that's all gone "pete tong", the event is to be Played on the doorstep of 12 of the traditional clubs in the hope of attracting more than 30,000 a day.....wow, expansion.......

Exhibit B:
200,000+ Australians and Kiwis in London at any given time.....so let's play their RLWC games in Warrington, Leeds, Wales and Leeds......Genius.



2 Examples of the RFL being inept at what they do......want another?

Exhibit C:
In 2005, they sent me a breakdown of what they wanted for naming rights for the Tri-nations......my car is worth more than Gillette paid........

The RFL are crap at marketing.....they are crap at everything to do with marketing.......they have employed a marketing GURU whose SELF CLAIM TO FAME IS:

I suspect that Sheikh-Mansour-bin-Zayed-Al-Nahyan and his money had far more to do with the standing of City than this guy, but nothing like setting yourself up for a big fall...is there..and the RFL have given this guy the job of marketing RLWC 2013



The RFL may not be stupid, but they won't be knocking on the door of MENSA any time soon either....

Quote Gutterfax="Gutterfax"As far as I know, the Headmasters at Eton and Harrow, nor the past pupils union of these schools, paid for any advertising or promotion.'" Hmmmm, it may not be Eton or Harrow but the saffacen Chairman, Nigel Wray, went to Mill Hill. Union ethos and ethics are strong at Mill Hill as evidenced by a scholarship in the name of an ex union international and this : Quote GutterfaxIn 2005 the school was one of fifty of the country's leading private schools which were found guilty of running an illegal price-fixing cartel, exposed by The Times, which had allowed them to drive up fees for thousands of parents'" ...not forgetting this: Quote GutterfaxNigel William Wray was born in London in 1948. His parents had a printing works, which was relocated to Andover when Nigel was young. He became a boarder at Mill Hill School, where he came across his friend Martyn Thomas, now the [former ?Chairman of the Rugby Football Union, a sport with which Nigel was to become very involved later in life.'" Oh and hes a merchant banker as well...More about Nigel and Martyns early yrs here: www.bristol.ac.uk/pace/graduatio ... /wray.html Unless of course, you're suggesting that former public schoolboy and saffacens Chairman Nigel Wray had absolutley no say in the planning and payment of the saffacens at wembley games, it would seem to back the suggestion by Him Re: schooling and interests.

Quote Gutterfax="Gutterfax"As far as I know, the Headmasters at Eton and Harrow, nor the past pupils union of these schools, paid for any advertising or promotion.'" Hmmmm, it may not be Eton or Harrow but the saffacen Chairman, Nigel Wray, went to Mill Hill. Union ethos and ethics are strong at Mill Hill as evidenced by a scholarship in the name of an ex union international and this : Quote GutterfaxIn 2005 the school was one of fifty of the country's leading private schools which were found guilty of running an illegal price-fixing cartel, exposed by The Times, which had allowed them to drive up fees for thousands of parents'" ...not forgetting this: Quote GutterfaxNigel William Wray was born in London in 1948. His parents had a printing works, which was relocated to Andover when Nigel was young. He became a boarder at Mill Hill School, where he came across his friend Martyn Thomas, now the [former ?Chairman of the Rugby Football Union, a sport with which Nigel was to become very involved later in life.'" Oh and hes a merchant banker as well...More about Nigel and Martyns early yrs here: www.bristol.ac.uk/pace/graduatio ... /wray.html Unless of course, you're suggesting that former public schoolboy and saffacens Chairman Nigel Wray had absolutley no say in the planning and payment of the saffacens at wembley games, it would seem to back the suggestion by Him Re: schooling and interests.