FORUMS > The Virtual Terrace > England players and the salary cap |
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| Quote: OFFTHECUFF "Why money talks and clubs like Leeds,Wigan and Hull could afford a higher salary cap.If could spend more then Ashton,Tomkins etc may not have gone to union.'"
Leeds have rarely spend right to the full salary cap, and Leeds, Wigan and Hull all continue to employ mediocre foreign players.
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| Quote: sally cinnamon "lol I think you need a bit more than that
Although I always enjoy it when people say "the best athletes in this country go to football because they earn more"
Yes I am sure that the athleticism of Frank Lampard and Steven Gerrard reaches levels Morley, Peacock, Graham and Roby could never attain'"
Nothing to do with that and probably more good players about who could have played rugby.My mate played footy when was at school in a football area, so never introduced to rugby.Now too old and is very strong and fast.Probably lots more in t country like that like the Liverpool area.We need to assess builds and get more variety of pt in schools.More players playing fulltime rugby will bring more competition.Just look at Australias strength in depth.
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| Quote: Richie "Leeds have rarely spend right to the full salary cap, and Leeds, Wigan and Hull all continue to employ mediocre foreign players.'"
This why the Rfl need to bring rules into place, so only so many foreign players.
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| I say get of the playstation the lazy fat kids.
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| Quote: OFFTHECUFF "Why money talks and clubs like Leeds,Wigan and Hull could afford a higher salary cap.If could spend more then Ashton,Tomkins etc may not have gone to union.'"
So, you seriously think, the above mentioned clubs have an additional £1.35 million per annum sloshing around in their coffers?
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| what is needed is more bigger games in the SL.
Take a look at the end of the eason Wigan played Leeds in the CC final, a week later played Wire which more or less decided where the shield went. not to mention stains twice with a match against Cats and crusaders. That is tough, take wire who didn't have a match during cup final week so they had two weeks to prepare for the shield match than also had a further weekend off when they won their play off match. In theory they should have won against leeds and in the past few seasons the team in that position has been fairly succesful.
Unfortunately the teams such as wigan, leeds, stains and wire the teams that make up the large proportion of the national squad only play a big game once or twice a month. The knock on effect is that when these player play in big games they can quite easilly as the week before and the week after the played London, Wakey, Cas. And use these matches as rest periods and just go through the motions.
Two easy steps would be in the play offs no fancy gimmicks. Keep it 8 teams but a straight knock out structure. Using the 2011 season table Wire would play Hull, Wigan v KR, Saints v Catalan and Hudds v leeds. Winners would go through to next round and the team who finished highest in the table would be at home. So in essence the two teams you would have expected to be in the GF would have been Wire and Wigan.
The second one would be introduce a state of origin tournament. Lancs, Yorkshire, Cumbria and rest of the country. Then when players start coming through at London and other expansion areas in the UK where they could field a team that could at least put a performance in then let them form one.
Also I would like a pathway for a player in the lower league to be able to progress into a superleague team. Instead of a team bringing in an ozzie or another foreigner why not bring a player in from the championship? a simple solution to this is if a player has been brought into a sl team from a championship team and if they have never played in the sl then they are exempt from the salary cap for the first year.
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| Quote: getdownmonkeyman "So, you seriously think, the above mentioned clubs have an additional £1.35 million per annum sloshing around in their coffers?'"
It may be true that they don't, but no mega-rich fan is going to invest to change that, because Rugby League doesn't want their money. If you want rich people's money, the only way they'll spend it is via a club, where they can feed their ego by trying to build a great team.
There are plenty mechanisms you can put in place to stop one team taking the p**s. Tough squad limits for one. The reason Wigan dominated when they outspent everyone was less to do with the 1st choice XIII, than it was the size of the bench. Not only did it mean Wigan could replace a missing international with another one, it meant other clubs didn't have the players to compete, because they were in Wigan's reserves. That can be fixed.
You can also 'tax' cap overspend to ensure rich investors money has some other benefit to the game.
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| Quote: fatbaztod100 "what is needed is more bigger games in the SL. '"
Increasing the intensity of our game is the only way and I think we're seeing it, no matter what the naysayers keep saying. Our game has improved immeasurably over the past ten years but people keep forgetting that as our's increases so does the NRL.
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| Quote: WiganEd "It may be true that they don't, but no mega-rich fan is going to invest to change that, because Rugby League doesn't want their money. If you want rich people's money, the only way they'll spend it is via a club, where they can feed their ego by trying to build a great team.'"
I'm not so sure about that. The current cap, where we can guarantee a limit on player salary expense, that there will never be a race away of player salaries and we can put a fixed number on the expense needed to be construct a competitve team, is more likely to attract investment than discourage it.
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| Wiganers seem to be obsessed with raising the salary cap as they perceive it is "holding back" Wigan, with their sort-of rich backer, from buying up all the best players and dominating the game like what they did back in The Golden Age.
My club could legitimately outspend Wigan, and the rest of the league, if they chose. But I'd rather they didn't as it isn't in the best interests of the game for Leeds and Wigan and the Wire to hoover up all the best players in the league leaving the rest of SL a moribund mess. But then Wiganers never seem to consider anything other than the small-minded interest of their own club.
So a hint: what's "good" for Wigan is not necessarily what is good for the game.
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| Quote: MjM "Wiganers seem to be obsessed with raising the salary cap as they perceive it is "holding back" Wigan, with their sort-of rich backer, from buying up all the best players and dominating the game like what they did back in The Golden Age.
My club could legitimately outspend Wigan, and the rest of the league, if they chose. But I'd rather they didn't as it isn't in the best interests of the game for Leeds and Wigan and the Wire to hoover up all the best players in the league leaving the rest of SL a moribund mess. But then Wiganers never seem to consider anything other than the small-minded interest of their own club.
So a hint
Good to have you back sir.
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| Quote: MjM "Wiganers seem to be obsessed with raising the salary cap as they perceive it is "holding back" Wigan, with their sort-of rich backer, from buying up all the best players and dominating the game like what they did back in The Golden Age.
My club could legitimately outspend Wigan, and the rest of the league, if they chose. But I'd rather they didn't as it isn't in the best interests of the game for Leeds and Wigan and the Wire to hoover up all the best players in the league leaving the rest of SL a moribund mess. But then Wiganers never seem to consider anything other than the small-minded interest of their own club.
So a hint
so when we lose sam tomkins to ru that is good for the game is it? Its not the salary cap what is a problem for me. Clubs should get rewarded for bringing through Home Growns and should be able to pay them what they want.
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| I like the idea of the salary cap but do think it is too low at the moment. In real terms RL wages have seen a big decline in recent years and even if RL's salary cap had increased in line with inflation it would be above £2 million now. Bearing in mind increasing SKY money, season tickets, crowds, RFL profits, sponsorship etc have all gone up in the time then where is all the extra money going? As far as I can tell no chairman seems to be in favour of the cap rising but at the same time they want all the kudos of owning a SL club without any expense.
I dont think that raising it, say to £2 million will make the league any less competitive but it will do an awful lot towards keeping not only our better players but also our younger players in the game. If clubs cant be trusted not to go bust cap it to £2 million and link it a percentage of revenue. Even this increase of £400,000 is only like 10 senior players getting an extra 20K and 20 lesser payed players getting another 10K. There are young, talented players, 17 and 18 year olds, who will be great players if they stay in the game, who are getting paid peanuts. Likewise there are young SL regulars who are getting less than 30K a year. Going forward the game has to offer more to not just these young players but potential players of the game.
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| Quote: Richie "I'm not so sure about that. The current cap, where we can guarantee a limit on player salary expense, that there will never be a race away of player salaries and we can put a fixed number on the expense needed to be construct a competitve team, is more likely to attract investment than discourage it.'"
But all the evidence is to the contrary - money pours into the premier league despite the fact that you'll basically lose your shirt investing in Latics, Wolves, etc. I shouldn't have used the word 'invest' - the reality is that most rich people that put money into sport ( perhaps nowadays with the exception of the very top premier league sides ) do so more in hope (and for their egos) than expectation. Same in Union. But that's their fault - you can protect the sport without turning away their money.
Put it this way, if I won the Euromillions, I'd want to get Billy Slater, etc. to Wigan. I'd even sign Johnny Wilkinson - not for the sake of a player, just to get my club on the front pages and make people take notice of WIgan and Rugby League and shove one up the RaRa press. Now, if I was given free reign, it might screw the sport up, because in trying to make Wigan the greatest club bar none, I might fill it with Aussies and put the next best 50 players in the world in the reserves.
So I'd need some rules to stop me doing that. But in devising rules to stop *that* happening, you don't need to throw the baby out with the bath water and insist on a hard, and too low, cap.
Limit the squad, limit the overseas players, set a soft cap, where overspend is taxed and given to grass roots, and set another hard cap which is based on an independent auditors opinion of 'can the club afford this'.
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| The biggest problem is two fold, we have a salary cap which is not keeping pace with outside influences in Union and NRL. More potential England players will migrate to the NRL and to a lesser degree Union, It's possible around 50% of the international team will never be seen in Superleague, this means Superleague will be saturated with more average overseas players taking up most of the salary cap.
We have clubs with 8 to 10 overseas players, for me this is where the RFL fail miserably, we are no closer to accelerating home grown youth than we were 10 years ago.
For me Superleague has very little value in the sporting world in both sponsorship and investment and can,t compete in the market place.
The only way RL can increase in stature is if Football and Union overprice themselves and implode, but I don,t think I will be holding my breathe.
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