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| While I'm at it, Bradford's accounts up to 2008 were recently mailed to shareholders. I wonder if one of them might be able to put on here how much the Bulls were spending each year on youth development. Then we can compare it to Orford's salary.
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| Quote Roy Haggerty="Roy Haggerty"That is true. But then, that's like saying that I can't get a candle as bright as the other guy's candle right now, so instead I'll stumble around in the dark.
'"
I see your point, but from a club perspective, their primary consideration is whether they get to stay in SL and then whether they are capable of winning anything.
Every SL club will spend its full salary cap (or as near as damn it) on players' wages. If Bradford, for example, decided to not sign Orford and instead put his salary into youth development, they'd be left so far behind all the other SL clubs in the short term, and might not even be in SL by the time their investment in youth began to bear fruit.
The only way it would work is if every club was forced to spend a specific amount of their income on youth development. This may mean that salary caps need to be reduced to free up the cash.
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International Chairman | 7594 | Bradford Bulls |
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| Quote Roy Haggerty="Roy Haggerty"[urlhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_league/super_league/bradford/8361832.stm[/url
Great. Bradford's answer to...'"
Bradford's problems, at a time when the prevailing winds of news is generally bad and season tickets are going on sale.
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| Quote Amadeo Avogadro="Amadeo Avogadro"I see your point, but from a club perspective, their primary consideration is whether they get to stay in SL and then whether they are capable of winning anything.
Every SL club will spend its full salary cap (or as near as damn it) on players' wages. If Bradford, for example, decided to not sign Orford and instead put his salary into youth development, they'd be left so far behind all the other SL clubs in the short term, and might not even be in SL by the time their investment in youth began to bear fruit.
The only way it would work is if every club was forced to spend a specific amount of their income on youth development. This may mean that salary caps need to be reduced to free up the cash.'"
Exactly! The SL grant should have to have a certan amount of it spent on Jnr development. If it means teams can't sign some over the hill Aussies on 200k contracts then so be it!
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| Quote Eric_Cartman_is_a_saint="Eric_Cartman_is_a_saint"if you honestly think that any of the above are on £280k a year you are deluded.
I am privvy to the wages of wigan, given that I have worked on their annual statutory audit and without giving you how much they earn/earned, I can tell you that neither Barrett nor Subway Stu where anywhere near that figure. Not even close.
I dont for one minute believe that that King or Burderus on that either.'"
Did you also include the image rights, cars, pensions and other benefits elements of their packages? See the RFL Operational Rules - Salary Cap section 5.6 for full details. Did you audit all elements of their packages? Given that most of the statutory audit work is directed towards the balance sheet and not the P&L let alone the payroll.
And anyway, even assuming the figure quoted in the media is correct, he could be being paid at least in part in AUD. The currency the transfer fee from Souths for Burgess will likely have been denominated in. AUD 500k p.a. a year or so ago would have been just over £200k.
Also, even with what you have said you may have breached the rules of confidentiality. I would be far from impressed if I was your institute, your firm or your client. And that's speaking as someone who qualified 30 years ago.
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| Quote Roy Haggerty="Roy Haggerty"And businesses who can't see past the end of their noses deserve to go to the wall. If SL clubs adopt this attitude of "what's in it for us", then perhaps they don't deserve to survive.
International competition is what brings in the big money. The reason GP clubs have salary caps so much higher than SL clubs despite similar crowds is because they get far more cash from their centrall allocation. The reason they get more central cashh is that RU has a thriving international game which brings in huge sponsorship and TV deals. You'd have to be really stupid to see this, and I don't believe that most of our SL clubs really are that stupid.
We've reached saturation point in terms of our domestic income-generating capacity in this country. Crowds have grown steadily but slowly since SL began, but are levelling off overall, and certainly aren't going to jump to the sort of size we'd need to generate the cash needed to fight off a cash-rich RU. So most significant income growth in future is going to have to come from TV and sponsorship. TV and sponsorship are directly related to international competition. Therefore, we have to improve the attractiveness of our international competition to improve our income. That's, as you say, a very businesslike notion.
Really, if any SL chief exec was so stupid as to suggest that international competition has no relevance to them, then that's as good a reason as any to make that chief execitive's sacking a condition of license renewal.'"
But how much of the money raised for internationals goes to the clubs themselves? I'd bet not much if any.
So I ask again, what benefit does the current international setup offer to SL clubs?
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| Quote Roy Haggerty="Roy Haggerty"While I'm at it, Bradford's accounts up to 2008 were recently mailed to shareholders. I wonder if one of them might be able to put on here how much the Bulls were spending each year on youth development. Then we can compare it to Orford's salary.'"
Go get them from Companies House. They were filed end October, when due.
But you know full well such a figure does not appear in a set of statutory accounts.
One thing I can assure you of though - the Bulls are very heavily concentrating on youth development under McNamara and Hood. Probably as much as any club in the competition, I suspect. They have to, since otherwise you end up with a team of middling journeymen like had to be the case in the inherited situation after Caisley and Noble left, and after we had lost over half of the academy & home-grown.
Bulls have done pretty good in bring forwards through the ranks - we have two more Burgesses going full-time this coming season, for example, and it is likely the RAB supporters group will be sponsoring them - but less so in the backs and especially in the halves. This signing plugs a serious medium-term weakness until the club is hopefully able to develop the successor internally.
I also think you will find the Bulls will have one of the youngest teams in the competition next year, and e.g. fewer overseas players than Leeds for one.
People are concentrating on a headline figure quoted in the Aussie media, the accuracy or otherwise of which no-one is in a position to check. Maybe if they had access to the true gross value of some of the packages elsewhere they would be less surprised.
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| It has always been this way.
The clubs wanted 30 league games a year in the old days, surprise, surpirise we are just about back to that again.
The clubs are right behind ideas to strengthen the international squad... as long as it doesn't mean their players playing. (Note the number of injuries when it comes around to mid-season 'origin', games against france, etc).
The fact is that the game in this country just is not on the same footing as in AUS... they have their pick of athletes (like soccer here) on top of the best what would here be called Kolpacks (sp?). Yet they just convert them to AUS or NZ players when it suits them.
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| Quote Roy Haggerty="Roy Haggerty"[urlhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_league/super_league/bradford/8361832.stm[/url
Great. Bradford's answer to the problem of our international uncompetitiveness is to bring in a 31 year-old halfback on a 3 year contract which will make him almost certainly the best paid player at the club, while letting Sam Burgess go to Oz. I wonder if Burgess was asking more than quarter of a million per year ?
Orford says : "I always wanted to finish my career in England", and that sums up pretty much everything that's wrong with this signing, and signings like it.'"
Bulls could not hold on to Burgess. He had a year left on his contract and made it clear he wanted to go to Oz ASAP. And he made it clear that there was no other British club he wanted to play for. What would you have done to retain him?
And you should be grateful - he will almost certainly develop further and faster in the NRL than in SL, to the benefit of England.
Oh...and it has been widely reported that Burgess took a pay CUT to move to Oz - because it was playing in Oz that was the draw, not just the money.
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| Quote Adeybull="Adeybull"we have two more Burgesses going full-time this coming season'"
Burgii.
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| Quote Sovtus Fuq="Sovtus Fuq"Burgii.'"
Burgessii, please!
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| I don't usually approve of SL clubs bringing in 30 + Aussies on pension top-up's, but given the situation at Bradford then I think it is very much a risk worth taking, even if he did have a poor 2009 in the NRL. If his heart is in it he'll still be a cut above the other 7's in Super League, the only worry is whether the rest of our backs are capable of benefiting from him.
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