]If shenton is nowhere near as good at attacking as senior how come he scored more tries than him? the differance between senior and shenton is that at international level senior was put into space, shenton hasnt been so he hasnt had the chance to get on the score board, and he has been our best back in defence by far.

Senior provides more tries for his winger than for himself (which Shenton doesnt do) but is more than capable of running through on his own if he needs to. That is why Leeds finished where they did and Cas finished where they did.

I never denied Shenton was good defensively, read what I wrote.

I think there's rather more to the final positions than a single centre on each team.

We could list all the other positions aswell but then we get in to a club vs club tit for tat.

I just think Senior offers more than one threat going forward. You shut down Shenton and that whole left side attack dies. Everytime someone shut down Senior this season it resulted in a Ryan Hall try.

In 2008 shenton got more try assists than senior because he had a good young winger outside him, in 2009 most of the season shenton had castlefords reserve winger outside of him. Shenton scored more tries than senior (or any other centre this season) last season he scored one less than senior and got one more assist. Now shenton has done that in a 12th place and a 7th place team, if senior was swapped round with shenton, senior would score less tries and set less tries up and shenton would score more tries and set more up, that much is obvious as anyone knows that its far easier to score tries in a dominant team.

If you think that the differance in league positions was down to the differance between shenton and senior your not very smart.

i know you never said shenton wasnt good defensivly (though that much is obvious, only a blind man wouldnt rate him as our best back in defence) but you said that he was far behind senior in attack despite the fact he has done as well or bettered senior in attack for the last two years and has done so in a far less dominant team ( last year we finished bottom and the team spent 70% of the time defending and shenton still only scored one less try than senior and got one more assist, even though senior got far more (probabbly twice as many) chances in attack.

1 - Owen
2 - Fox
3 - Shenton
4 - Atkins
5 - Halley
6 - Tomkins
7 - Eastmond
8 - Peacock
9 - Diskin
10 - Graham
11 - Ellis
12 - Burgess
13 - Purdham

14 - Mccarthy-Scarsbrook
15 - Roby
16 - Crabtree
17 - Pryce

No it didnt. I've seen senior shut down a hell of a lot of times this season and no try has been scored.

And the aussies rarely had to do anything about shenton and hall as they very rarely got the ball.

Shenton scored more tries for a reason, he's better in attack than senior.

no he isnt!

Leave it off.

Because Shenny doesn't play for Leeds or Saints ? If he had a blue jersey on he would have been tonnes better than Senior. We are clearly nowhere near the standard of Leeds thats why when it comes to playing club rugby you cannot compare Shenton and Senior...because Senior gets more service being in a world class team.

Shenny deserves his spot in the England team as he has proved all the tourny.

For what it's worth my side would be:

1.?
2. Fox
3.Shenton
4.Atkins
5.Hall
6.Tomkins
7.Eastmond
8.?
9. Sinfield
10icon_confused.gif
11. Peacock
12.Ellis
13.Burgess

1. Owen
2. Fox
3. Atkins
4. Shenton
5. Hall
6. Widdop
7. Eastmond
8. Lynch
9. Diskin
10. Graham
11. Ellis (c)
12. Burgess
13. Sinfield

14. Westerman
15. Crabtree
16. Carvell
17. Tomkins

Based on if Morely & JP retire

Senior in a dominant team where he gets far more walk over tries than shenton (my 75 year old gran could have scored 4 or 5 of seniors tries this season) has scored less than shenton.

Senior may have got more assists, but he had a far better winger, when shenon had a good young winger outside him for most of the season in 2008 he got more assist than senior.

However we could argue this all day (in my experiance most leeds fans happen to think that there player is the best in every position no matter how much evidence there is to the conterary), but the comment that sparked this was that shenton was nowhere near senior in attack, which considering he scored more tries than senior is clearly an idiotic statement.

in the last two seasons-

tries- senior 23, shenton 28.
assists- senior 19, shenton 10.
meters per carry- senior 8.05, shenton 7.85
clean breaks- senior 43, shenton 34.

And all that despite senior having a far easier job of scoring in a dominant team, wheras shenton has had far less opportunities in attack.

so Senior has more assists, more metres per carry, and more clean breaks,

and you are using this as evidence Senior benefits from playing in a better team as he gets more walkover tries rather than his own quality?

cheers for proving my point though