But it's rarely sold-out in it's history. Of course I'd like it to be a sell-out but I just don't see it as a big deal, the far, far more important issue in my view is the relatively poor international attendances and the poor media profile we have.

I think you're right there, there are fewer "RL pubs" or "RL areas", the support is more spread out so there are fewer pubs or organisations or groups who travel down together. The hardcore will probably still go but the few who weren't that bothered but would have gone as part of the group probably don't go now.
Also, I think fewer amateur clubs take groups down, or if they do they take less people than they used to. In fact amateur clubs have become very insular in many parts, where the only rugby they're really interested in is amateur rugby.

Like you say, when you compare it to Union they still get the amateur clubs taking a decent sized group down to Twickers and will turn out for "nothing" games as well as major ones. Partly I think that's down to money. I know it's a stereotype that Union fans have more money than League fans but it's certainly been true in my experience. Each time I've been to a Union club while I was playing for York RU there have been BMW's, Merc's, Audi's and Range Rover's in the car park. When going to a League club there are generally Peugeot's, Ford's and VW's. And when you get talking to people they are generally in wealthier jobs than the League lot (half of whom seem to have been in prison at some point!). So I'm sure that money plays its part, plus going to Twickers for a day out has become fashionable, whereas going to Wembley for RL is "just for fans".

I think you're right there, there are fewer "RL pubs" or "RL areas", the support is more spread out so there are fewer pubs or organisations or groups who travel down together. The hardcore will probably still go but the few who weren't that bothered but would have gone as part of the group probably don't go now.
Also, I think fewer amateur clubs take groups down, or if they do they take less people than they used to. In fact amateur clubs have become very insular in many parts, where the only rugby they're really interested in is amateur rugby.

Like you say, when you compare it to Union they still get the amateur clubs taking a decent sized group down to Twickers and will turn out for "nothing" games as well as major ones. Partly I think that's down to money. I know it's a stereotype that Union fans have more money than League fans but it's certainly been true in my experience. Each time I've been to a Union club while I was playing for York RU there have been BMW's, Merc's, Audi's and Range Rover's in the car park. When going to a League club there are generally Peugeot's, Ford's and VW's. And when you get talking to people they are generally in wealthier jobs than the League lot (half of whom seem to have been in prison at some point!). So I'm sure that money plays its part, plus going to Twickers for a day out has become fashionable, whereas going to Wembley for RL is "just for fans".'"

people keep going on about it not being a sellout if there arent 90k in attendance. Thing to remember is the club wembley seats are included in the 90k capacity and there won't be many of those, primarily football supporting seat holders in attendance for a RL final, but as there entitled to attend their seats aren't available to anyone else. Not sure how many seats are in the middle tier but I'd guess at 10-15k minimum, which needs knocking off the stadium capacity when your talking about whether game is a sellout or not.

When I first went to a Wembley cup final a large part of the appeal was that it was a rare trip to "the smoke". It was a big deal going to London then. Great excitement was had arranging the chara and the crates of beer, or posing in Trafalgar Square. That's all gone. Not reallly surprising that the fixture has lost some of its appeal.

When I say sell-out I mean clubs allocations.

The club Wembley seats, occupied or not are included in the gate declared I understand ie the attendance is inflated

No there not....

Are you certain..............

yes they still get tickets and the tickets that are used on the day get counted and the attendance given

For me, this is where RL doesn't exactly do itself any favours. I really, really don't like this "rugby league's big day out" thing - as if it is some sort of huge deal that us Northerner's have ventured to The Big City.

How do you sell RL as a forward thinking, progressive sport when you have this image of confused Northerners leaving their pit village for the one and only time each year?

Sadly that’s what the majority of the parochial M62 pit dinosaurs want. The thing is its so true. It is the one day a year that a large % of the north get to see the sun and pints priced at £5. Stop living in denial.