They were creditable performances, and I agree that the reason we're not in the final is a bent video ref.

But...

It's not good enough to say "we're getting there". International rugby isn't like a league season where you have 28 games to improve, many of which are dead rubbers. In a good year we have 3 games, and they ALL count. So as they used to say in the merchant navy in 1942, "a near miss is as good as a mile".

You have to win. It's as simple as that. We had the game against Australia by the scruff of the neck, then let it go - Sutton should never have been in the position to cheat us because we should have been scores ahead. Likewise against the kiwis we had loads of scoring opportunities which we did not capitalise on. These are not small things. That's about professionalism, ruthlessness and a winning belief. I actually DO think we have the physical talent to match and beat them (except in the halves) but we do not have the culture and attitude to do so.

That's why, on a different thread, I joined those calling for a new coach. McNamara has taken us so far, but we need someone else to take us further.

I'm 44. I've never seen England/GB win a series or comp with the Aussies in. I've seen us beat NZ in a series once, I think (maybe twice). I've probable got between 30 and 40 years left. I'd like to see a win just once before I die, rather than turning my tied up saying "well, we got close and were unlucky a few times"

I can't agree with this. Australia was still full of quality but the likes of Thurston (IMO best player in the world) and Slater haven't yet met their sell by date.

That's without taking into account Gallen, Matt Scott, Tamou and Fafita who would have all walked into the Aus pack.

Close, but no cigar.
But I agree with the general thrust on here that we are making progress. No we didn't win, but we were at the races, which is more that you could say not so long ago when the Aussies were sticking 50 on us. And for all the trolls on here banging on about what a weak Aussie side it is, you can only play what's put in front of you.

Regarding the England Knights, I'm all in favour of them having regular tours against some of the south sea island nations. Would help the knights with game time, and give the smaller nations internationals that they can be competitive in, and hopefully improve their standard of play.

We can't handle pressure. We fold when ever the game is on the line.

...Like Australia did?
They were awfully rusty against the Kiwis, a bit better v England and pretty decent against Samoa....all in preparation for the 1 game that actually matters this weekend.

Agreed.it would have been nice to have a had a run out prior to Samoa but that was a tough game in tough conditons that should have been enough to shake the rust and for Mcnamara to see what worked and what didn't so no excuses.

I think Australia will win this weekend but it will be tight.The kiwis have a big edge in the pack which should ensure they are always in the game.

It really depends which Kiwi side show up. They were poor v Samoa, getting sucked into Samoa's game plan and v England, they were pretty flat.

JT I Will give you and yes he is one of the best players in the world,
Cherry evans and Cooper Cronk though, its still a world class half back paring

Slater vs Inglis, Inglis for me everytime

I don't think you could have 3 better props than were picked, Aaron Woods, Sam Thaiday & Corey Parker. Aaron woods well deserved his place after a standout season, Scott in for Josh Papalii would be an improvement

So with exception to JT & Scott I don't see that there is much room for improvement than what was picked

lol, seriously you think that was the best pack Australia could have chosen if everyone fit?

8. M. Scott
9. Smith
10. Tamou
11. Gallen
12. Fifita
13. Parker

14. Papalli
15. Woods
16. Bird
17. Cherry-Evans

would have been the first choice most likely and is a damn sight stronger.

You are right.

It's not to be underestimated how much of a difference Roby would have made to our pack too though.We looked at our most dangerous and productive with Clark on the field and the periods he was off we dropped off.Having Roby as starting Hooker with Clark off the bench could be a great combo and i will really look forward to seeing that against NZ next year.

Not having Westwood available was also a big loss IMO.

yes with exception to Scott from all the matches I have watched the best pack was picked

Perhaps a tad heretical from my own Club's supporters POV, but, Westwood probably hadn't done enough last season to warrant an automatic spot.

Compared to his high standards his form (and ours) was patchy. I'm hopeful with a decent rest this off season, he'll be back to his best. Although Father Time might be starting to catch up, especially for such a demanding role, when he's fully fit and on his game, there's not many others I'd put in ahead of him

that is the worry.33/34 is getting on as far as mixing it in the back row is concerned on the international stage.

We could do with him back to his best though

That is nowhere close to "end of"!
Admittedly we could have won on that decision, but to state that is the only reason we did not win is ridiculous.

England had that game in the bag as they went off at half time, they even started the second half as though they would walk it eventually, THEN what.?
They stopped doing what they were excelling with and went defensive, with a lets hold them out attitude.

For the ensuing 30, or so, minutes of that second half, they let the Aussies run the game and only tried to retrieve a match, we should have had won by then comfortably, in the final 3, or so, minutes of the game.

Sorry but that is the real reason ENGLAND failed yet again. The ref argument is really a very secondary reason why we did not play in this weekends final.

We should have and it was our own fault that we are not.