I once had a go at this about 10 years ago when Wigan were top producing players, and Leeds were doing very well too at that time. Saints were doing well too.

Struggling were such as Salford, and IIRC Warrington weren't doing to well..............

As I have said Featherstone won the cup with 12 Featherstone born players. It's clear over the decades the production of local quality RL players has been tumbling across the board big time. Even the city of Leeds with so much success in fairly recent years isn't doing so great.

I don't know if Cas are "fourth in the table" they could be, but the fact is academies across the board aren't producing the quality they did and everyone seems to max out on their import quota and despite these players being NRL rejects they are often the clubs best players.....

The RFL flipped quickly. What a joke and shows just how badly the sport is ran over here.

If you are going to make a decision at least believe in it and stand behind your convictions.

I don't know if it was the right decision but if you are going to to make big decisions don't give up so quickly.

As for the idea that players playing first grade is some kind of measure of the quality of acadamy it isn't. More important is if they are actually good enough and actually stay in first grade for a sustained period.

Playing a handful of games means nothing.

Obviously lads with high squad numbers can get games late in the season covering injuries, and I agree that dosen't make them "professionals" nor the academy a producer of professionals.

Leeds were the first club to push for academies followed by Wigan. I am thinking Carl Ablett, Danny McGuire, Lee Smith, Ryan Bailey, Matt Diskin, Jamie Peacock (via Bulls academy) matt Diskin (from Dewsbury) Luke Burgess (Liversedge), Ben Jones Bishop, Jamie Jones Buchanan, Richie Mathers, Mark Calderwood, Chev Walker, Paul McShane, Danny ward and Ryan Hall (rothwell)....

All successful players indeed, but where are such players now at Leeds? Liam Sutcliffe and Ash Handley seem to be the only successes from the Leeds area academy.

If the founding academy with a lengthy record of producing it's own talent is struggling badly what of other clubs beyond Wigan & Saints......

Stevie Ward (retired), Cam Smith, Mik Olezdski, Tom Holroyd, Morgan Gannon, Jack Broadbent, Jack Walker, Alex Sutcliffe

Then there's others at other clubs like Ash Golding, Alex Foster, Brad Singleton, Kalum Watkins, and Paul Mcshane etc

many thanks



You can't have Stevie ward as he dates back to when Leeds had a productive academy, and I named Paul McShane as well and he too dates back to then, and Kallum Watkins was enticed from Salford's academy.

The more up to date products you name prove my point that Leeds Academy are nothing special anymore so it's a bit rich the RFL having a go at Cas etc. Golding never really made it in SL and Jack Walker has proved to be talented but not physically up to it.as for Cameron Smith here is the ironic fact......

Smith was at Castleford Academy, the one the RFL want to shut down, and in Leeds desperation for talent he was made an offer by Leeds to join their academy.

Leeds is a city of 800,000 people and Castleford is only 40,000......

I'd like Ralph Rimmer to explain why Leeds Academy with 20 times as many kids to target for development into Rugby League professionals but is no longer producing quality RL players from the Leeds area, is supposedly so great................ yet Cas's academy should be shut down??

How does Jamie Peacock count? He’d already won the man of steel and captained a grand final winning team before he signed for Leeds.

BTW that’s not taking anything away from Leeds academy success. They’re still churning them out too.

I’m not even sure Bradford can really count him as a. Academy product because he was about 19 or 20 when we signed him from Stanningley and sent him out on loan to a uni team in Australia.

Peacock counts because he was developed by a Leeds amateur club. I'm just noting geographically where we get our players from and in what numbers, it isn't a competition, you don't have to claim Jamie as one of your own.......



Leeds are not churning them out at all mate - read my posts the quality of the top RL players who came from Leeds 10 or more years ago is far greater that it is now, and that's a massive worry.

Do you remember the Wigan teams of old packed with Wigan born, bred, and home grown developed talent???

This current Wigan squad only contains Marshall, Powell, Farrel. Partington and Bibby actually from Wigan......

So you agree that an academy isn’t an answer.i It’s not a pathway or a gateway to future rewards. What needs to be explained is how an academy works as opposed to the community game and what happens to those players.

Should they make the grade of an academy then not make the grade of SL what happens to them?

Ok I see what you mean. The problem IMO is the relatively small talent pool we are working worth.

Surely the answer is academies, a thriving amateur scene and schools rugby league?

That’s always been the answer.

The main obstacle has always been the clubs, including Bradford in their pomp.

You go on about Bradford’s products but what have they or any other club done to make these things happen. Nothing and they never really have. Not when it comes to spending money, that goes on past it Aussies for short term gain.

It takes time, effort and above all money to create a true infrastructure, Union knows it, the FA know it but SL wasted it’s golden egg when the TV money arrived.

Only Leeds and Wigan have ever really made the youth system work and even then only by plundering and stockpiling all the talent.

Where are the schools and junior clubs affiliated to them, where are the leagues run and supported by them?

Truth is nobody is interested until they reach 16 then it’s too late. By then the talent pool is too small and the late developers have nowhere to go.

You look at the Aussie system, they are miles ahead. The NRL teams run junior teams but they are basically finishing schools, all the hard works been done. Our Academies are like re-education camps, because there is no connection between the pro game and junior RL despite what the clubs say.

We can tinker with the Academies all we like and to be fair they all try their best but until the raw material is improved they will remain fairly ineffective. Truth is that imho there is no other sport who’s elite level is so disconnected from its grass roots that they are barely the same sport,

Quote vastman="vastman"That’s always been the answer. The main obstacle has always been the clubs, including Bradford in their pomp. You go on about Bradford’s products but what have they or any other club done to make these things happen. Nothing and they never really have. Not when it comes to spending money, that goes on past it Aussies for short term gain. It takes time, effort and above all money to create a true infrastructure, Union knows it, the FA know it but SL wasted it’s golden egg when the TV money arrived. We can tinker with the Academies all we like and to be fair they all try their best but until the raw material is improved they will remain fairly ineffective. Truth is that imho there is no other sport who’s elite level is so disconnected from its grass roots that they are barely the same sport,'" Thanks to Maccbull atomic and your good self........ I think you make the same general point, but we must remember that the last SKY deal was big enough to not only help fund "academies" but also "foundations"..... Very little ever appears on message boards about the "charitable" foundations at the SL clubs. Charitable they are to a point but a large part of their time is promoting RL to local schools. As I understand it JJB has worked for the Leeds Foundation and put rugby balls in kids hands, and encouraged kids teams to be formed. I don't think it fair to say clubs do nothing, SL clubs have the funding to do this, something Bradford don't get hence they can't do the foundation.......... https://www.leedsrhinosfoundation.org/ I think Salford who have no academy still have a foundation https://twitter.com/SRDFoundation?ref_s ... r%5Eauthor We've got to be fair here, SL clubs deliver a lot of hard work to try to encourage kids to play and have done for most of the current 5 year TV contract.....

Quote vastman="vastman"That’s always been the answer. The main obstacle has always been the clubs, including Bradford in their pomp. You go on about Bradford’s products but what have they or any other club done to make these things happen. Nothing and they never really have. Not when it comes to spending money, that goes on past it Aussies for short term gain. It takes time, effort and above all money to create a true infrastructure, Union knows it, the FA know it but SL wasted it’s golden egg when the TV money arrived. We can tinker with the Academies all we like and to be fair they all try their best but until the raw material is improved they will remain fairly ineffective. Truth is that imho there is no other sport who’s elite level is so disconnected from its grass roots that they are barely the same sport,'" Thanks to Maccbull atomic and your good self........ I think you make the same general point, but we must remember that the last SKY deal was big enough to not only help fund "academies" but also "foundations"..... Very little ever appears on message boards about the "charitable" foundations at the SL clubs. Charitable they are to a point but a large part of their time is promoting RL to local schools. As I understand it JJB has worked for the Leeds Foundation and put rugby balls in kids hands, and encouraged kids teams to be formed. I don't think it fair to say clubs do nothing, SL clubs have the funding to do this, something Bradford don't get hence they can't do the foundation.......... https://www.leedsrhinosfoundation.org/ I think Salford who have no academy still have a foundation https://twitter.com/SRDFoundation?ref_s ... r%5Eauthor We've got to be fair here, SL clubs deliver a lot of hard work to try to encourage kids to play and have done for most of the current 5 year TV contract.....