FORUMS > The Virtual Terrace > Would you prefer a 6 Nations instead of 4? |
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| Quote: langpark "You don't watch anything outside of English RL do you...
16th Oct
140,000?!!! Would be very interested to know how you have come to this figure, especially using "conservative estimates".
Here are my estimates using your fixtures:
Week 1:
Aus vs Samoa @ the Stoop (5,000 at very best, based on past exhibition games at the Stoop, e.g. Quins vs NRL Champs)
NZ vs Wales @ Wrexham (10,000 at very best, based on capacity of the ground, which is being very generous)
England vs PNG @ Salford (12,000 at very best, based on past fixtures vs France/Wales at the end of the season)
France vs Ireland @ Avignon (14,000 at very best, based on last year's crowd for the same game)
Week 2:
Aus vs France @ Toulouse (14,000 at very best, based on 2009 Four Nations crowd there and adding a few more because it's Aus, but not taking into account slow ticket sales from not knowing if France will actually be in at this stage or not)
NZ vs England @ Hull (23,000 at very best, based on previous crowds for NZ at KC, and again not taking into account slow ticket sales from not knowing who will be in at this point).
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Wales vs Samoa @ Wrexham (4,000 at best, a nothing game and basing it on other low-level internationals in Wales)
Ireland vs PNG @ Halifax (3,000 at best, based on the last time Ireland played a game with actual meaning in West Yorkshire at Dewsbury, and taking away people for the fact that nobody knows who will be playing and that it's a nothing game)
Week 3:
Grand Final @ Huddersfield (20k if England aren't there at best, 23k if they are, based on the fact that Galpharm rarely sells out)
3rd place playoff @ St Helens (5k at best, a nothing game)
5th place @ Headingley (5k at best, a nothing game)
7th place @ Leigh (5k at best, a nothing game).
I've got 120k there just, and being very generous with some of the crowds.
I don't know where you got your 120k figure from for the 4N as well, but considering we're already at 23k at the moment, have sold over 41k at Wembley at the moment (so another 6k not out of the question), Eng/NZ and Wal/Aus likey to post 23k and 10k crowds at best (what I predicted for your idea), that means you think there will be less than 20k for the final? There was 26k there even when England didn't make it. 130-140k for 7 games is better than 120k for 12 games.
That's 5 extra venues and 4 extra teams to put up. The number of weeks is irrelevant if you've doubled the number of teams and made only half of the teams have more than one meaningful game.
And I'm not sure what your point is posting them two results? Are you trying to say it's not a very possible situation that Ireland could beat France? Let's look at how they did in the last World Cup...
Ireland - one win off the semis.
France - ranked the worst team in the competition.
I don't think I need to justify how much RL I watch outside of England on that basis (but I'll add I've just come back from a rugby league trip to Malta just for the sake of it )
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| Id go for quality rather than quantity by having a 4 Nations consisting of:
Great Britain
Australia
New Zealand
Combined Pacific islands team
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| Good post wellsy, really.
I think your crowd projections were good, though I think the St Helens match (since there's a high chance England will be there) and the Toulouse match would have gotten bigger attendances, and to a lesser extent, the Headingley match...
Ireland play France this weekend and there's a high chance the Irish will get rolled... So my point was, on current form, France are short odds favourites in that contest...
Well done on going to Malta, how are things over there? Shame they weren't involved in the WC qualifiers...
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6731_1299024498.jpg [quote="King Street Cat":1wa9s43t]Some might look at this as being harsh but I think it's fair. When are the Rugby League going to stop persisting with this fantasy expansion. If it hasn't worked by now, it never will! I'm all for reaching out to a wider audience with our game but not at the expense of historical clubs in the homelands.[/quote:1wa9s43t]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_6731.jpg |
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| Some of the ideas here are ridiculous, some of you are pretty much suggesting holding a World Cup every year.
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| Quote: langpark "Good post wellsy, really.
I think your crowd projections were good, though I think the St Helens match (since there's a high chance England will be there) and the Toulouse match would have gotten bigger attendances, and to a lesser extent, the Headingley match...
Ireland play France this weekend and there's a high chance the Irish will get rolled... So my point was, on current form, France are short odds favourites in that contest...
Well done on going to Malta, how are things over there? Shame they weren't involved in the WC qualifiers...'"
Game got called off on the hour mark after it rained so much you couldn't genuinely couldn't see the person next to you (never seen rain like it in my life and I've lived in a city that flooded!). Talk of WC qualifiers is very premature. Nowhere near that stage yet.
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| Quote: headhunter "Some of the ideas here are ridiculous, some of you are pretty much suggesting holding a World Cup every year.'"
I haven't.
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| Quote: Violent Badger "I didn't watch much of it but New Zealand, South Africa, Wales, England, France, Australia and Ireland are all capable of beating any of the others on a good day. The same can't be said for the line up mentioned above. Sides like Wales, France, PNG and Samoa will NEVER beat a side like Australia in a competitive match. The gulf is too wide and will never narrow enough'"
Is this the same Ireland that has NEVER beaten New Zealand in the history of internationals between the two sides? Kinda puts paid to the argument that one team is capable of beating any other... or have Ireland never had a ‘good day’ against New Zealand?
p.s. I don’t normally put things in capitals but my never is factual and your never is simply predicting the future so I thought mine won out there
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| Ireland went crazy celebrating a pool stage win against Australia. It was that big a deal to them, and they're definitely in the better half of the Six Nations.
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| Quote: headhunter "Some of the ideas here are ridiculous, some of you are pretty much suggesting holding a World Cup every year.'"
Hate to use them as an example but the soccer teams play so many internationals against so many teams tracking down the numbers each year is hard...
Different Nations England (RU) played 2010: 9
Different Nations England (RU) played 2011: 8 (inc WC)
Added Argentina, Georgia, Romania. Less Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Samoa.
Different Nations Wales (RU) played 2010: 8
Different Nations Wales (RU) played 2011: 11 (inc WC)
Argentina, Namibia and Samoa extra, otherwise the same.
Hardly a big difference there... the world cup just adds some also-rans. Otherwise sports tend to be running qualifying tournaments, or having competitions/friendlies with teams rougly a similar ability/rivals anyway...
We have (slightly) fewer nations than Ru of course at this point, don't see the harm in adding some consistency each year, whatever format is used? After all, we've basically had the WC each year anyway with the 3/4N, whilst leaving the other nations to their own devices.
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6731_1299024498.jpg [quote="King Street Cat":1wa9s43t]Some might look at this as being harsh but I think it's fair. When are the Rugby League going to stop persisting with this fantasy expansion. If it hasn't worked by now, it never will! I'm all for reaching out to a wider audience with our game but not at the expense of historical clubs in the homelands.[/quote:1wa9s43t]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_6731.jpg |
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| Quote: Bovrick "Hate to use them as an example but the soccer teams play so many internationals against so many teams tracking down the numbers each year is hard...
Different Nations England (RU) played 2010The difference is that football has 200+ national teams, and a consistent programme of qualifying and major tournaments. Imagine if you had a tournament between England, Spain, France, Germany, Italy, Brazil and Argentina every year, it would just be stupid. Regarding the rest of your post, I couldn't care less about RU.
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| Should go back to GB, as Wales, Scotland and Ireland are useless - then GB might be a bit more competitive v Oz and NZ.
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6731_1299024498.jpg [quote="King Street Cat":1wa9s43t]Some might look at this as being harsh but I think it's fair. When are the Rugby League going to stop persisting with this fantasy expansion. If it hasn't worked by now, it never will! I'm all for reaching out to a wider audience with our game but not at the expense of historical clubs in the homelands.[/quote:1wa9s43t]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_6731.jpg |
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| Quote: Mike Oxlong "Should go back to GB, as Wales, Scotland and Ireland are useless - then GB might be a bit more competitive v Oz and NZ.'" Think about what you have just said.
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| Quote: headhunter "Think about what you have just said.'"
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| Quote: headhunter "The difference is that football has 200+ national teams, and a consistent programme of qualifying and major tournaments. Imagine if you had a tournament between England, Spain, France, Germany, Italy, Brazil and Argentina every year, it would just be stupid. Regarding the rest of your post, I couldn't care less about RU.'"
Less international RL isnt going to grow international RL.
International RL is our greatest tool for spreading the game but for it to do that we have to actually play international RL.
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6731_1299024498.jpg [quote="King Street Cat":1wa9s43t]Some might look at this as being harsh but I think it's fair. When are the Rugby League going to stop persisting with this fantasy expansion. If it hasn't worked by now, it never will! I'm all for reaching out to a wider audience with our game but not at the expense of historical clubs in the homelands.[/quote:1wa9s43t]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_6731.jpg |
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| Quote: SmokeyTA "Less international RL isnt going to grow international RL.
International RL is our greatest tool for spreading the game but for it to do that we have to actually play international RL.'" Agreed, that doesn't mean that every team needs to play each other every year. I wouldn't be averse to a 5 Nations tournament two years between World Cups, but if we play the same competition with the same teams every year it would just be overkill. In fact, I'd be pretty happy if the international programme from last year, this year and next year is consistent for the three years where the World Cup is not being contested, obviously with an expanded World Cup Qualifying process over two seasons.
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