1. No. Away support as in terms of Toronto replacing say Wakefield was the discussion. Nobody is suggesting replacing 4 sides with 4 unsupported sides, but even if Toronto, Toulouse, NYC and London replaced Wakey, Widnes, Salford and HKR, the fiscal impact would only be 60k to the remaining clubs...as in the loss of 4,000 away fans for those games.....as it is, SL attedances should rise this year as HKR are a better supported club than Leigh, but the reality is the impact on travelling fan income will be minimal.
2. So what? Old Trafford is pretty much rammed all winter and often with 10k travelling support.....Leigh and Wigan are less than 9 miles apart and the DW is hardly a shabby stadium!
3. Catalan have not once hit the 10k average attendance target in a dozen seasons and are still overly reliant on imported talent. They have done little if anything for the French game and yet you think adding 2 more sides is a magic bullet?
4. London hosted an ANZAC test in 2009 and filled the Stoop with a then capacity gate of 12,500 and have seen gates of 40k+....but London saw their last ever SL game attended by 1,402 people....putting a team somewhere that gets decent international attendances doesn't work.

Out of interest where do you get the £15 ticket from for a traveling fan in SL? Don't think I've bought one for less than £20 in a fair bit.

A few years back, Iam Lenegan stated that a £14 ticket netted the club (QRL) £9......I am just working on the inflation over the last decade and that some clubs won't be forking out rent....it's just a guesstimate.
If we do say that an away ticket is £20 then the 1,000 away fans represent £20,000.....which is still a fraction of a percentage against overall turnover. [size(something like 0.44%...but I am loathe to get that wrong as it detracts from the overall debate)[/size

That £20 ticket is subject to 20% VAT, so the benefit to the club (before any additional expenses) is £18. And by the time you factor in concessionary tickets, the average ticket value is probably less than £15.

You expansionist boys really do struggle with your maths don't you (which does cast doubt on everything else, given the primary reason for expansion seems to be to bring more money into the game). If a ticket is £20 including 20% VAT, then the ex-VAT price would be £16.67.

Negotiating TV deals from other nations/continents maybe looks good in theory, but there's still no sign of a real plan? The proof of the pudding would be when we see increased payments from the RFL to the clubs.

As has already been said, the main source of income for clubs is from Sky and (in some cases) company directors. Other sources of income (match tickets, dining, merchandise, refreshments, etc.) are still an important part of the overall income of a club though. To folk who enjoy attending the games in person (rather than watching on TV), a healthy number of away fans (assuming they're well behaved, but that's another subject) adds to the experience with the banter and atmosphere that it creates.

To repeat myself, my preference is for a "traditional" British system where on-field success is rewarded, but I'm not against expansion per se - I do find it strange to have apparently random clubs popping up across the Atlantic though. What seems to be missing, is what the "final solution" might look like. I don't mean what folk on these forums are saying, but something from the RFL to say just what they're trying to achieve and what the ultimate league structure could look like. It all seems very piecemeal, with each initiative seemingly driven independently.

We're in 2018 now, and the fact that we're talking about SL moving to a 14-team league next year sums it up. I believe that there's a SL meeting to discuss it this month, but club preparations for this season will be largely complete now, and which means that any changes that are agreed are a tad late. We should be talking about changes of this nature to introduce in 2020 or later now, not ones for next year.

Hi Sparky. Looking forward to playing you guys again this season.

My concern is that that the 'final solution', if the North American venture is successful, will see their big city clubs ditch the UK clubs in favour of a North American league/conference. Then, even the quoted so-called big UK clubs, such as Wigan, Leeds, Saints and Hull, would be forced back amongst the rest of us in a parochial UK set-up. Whilst that may prove great, in terms of an international set up, it would do more harm than good to the UK game.

Your maths teacher would be disappointing

If there was to be some kind of "world league", with multiple clubs from N.America, France & the UK, with perhaps only 5/6 UK clubs, the domestic competition, without say Wigan, Leeds, Saints, Hull, Warrington might be an exciting watch plus, if there was promotion/relegation from the "world league" on a 1 up 1 down basis, maybe that is the way forward ??

Personally, I dont think so, at least not in the next 20 years, as any attempt to do so would leave the "top" English clubs dominating and may also lead to the "world" clubs going pop, especially as they wont be producing SL+ standard players of their own any time soon.

I agree that there should be a plan and it shouldn't be on a fag packet in the gents at Red Hall.
The Clubs, players, sponsors and most of all the fans, deserve better.

As things stand, yet again, we are being taken for granted.

I'd agree with that. And what worries me is that without a clear and published strategy, the temptation for the clubs to go off and do their own thing can only grow and grow.

I can certainly see the idea of a "World League" or "Atlantic League" being on the table, but do wonder whether that would leave us with something similar to the 'Champions League' problems that football has - the top teams continually picking up Champions League prize money, moving away from the chasing pack, and struggling to compete (unless you happen upon a friendly Sheikh) - which would make any "one up, one down" system unsustainable in my view. The gap between 6th and even just 7/8th in the Premier League is getting enormous, I think you could magnify that gap tenfold or more in RL.

I really do wonder where we go from here. Watching the darts this week, it struck me that what is happening in RL at the moment has shades of the darts civil war, where leading players were losing faith in the governing body's ability to grow the sport. Someone earlier in this thread used the term "breakaway" and whilst I don't think we're at that point, one does wonder how long the RFL can keep bumbling along, trying to please everyone, and actually pleasing nobody.

There are signs that clubs are already looking to force the issue themselves - Wigan and Hull heading to Sydney for example, whereas Leeds have done a lot of work in the United States through their pre-season training camps and tie-up with Atlanta. At what point do those clubs, and clubs like those, decide that they're tired of running at the pace of the slowest man?

You're in dream land if you think that there's going to be a 'World League' anytime soon and even more so if you think there'll be 5 or 6 UK clubs in it, including the likes of Wigan, Leeds, Saints, Hull and Warrington. There'd almost certainly only be 'London' although with a following wind 'Manchester' could possibly squeeze in.

If you could scrap the lot and start again, then, maybe you'd be right.
However, as things stand, it would be the "big boys" that would be asked to join.

Manchester have you seen the development to the closest club that we have to Manchester (Salford), they appear to be in freefall, especially since Koucash got bored.

Anyway, it's not even a remote possibility at present and is unlikely to happen, unless some idiot at HQ has been drinking some very strange substances.

Even though it may not be palatable to many, IF "we" are serious about including Toronto and Toulouse in the top flight, "we" may as well "promote" them and give them exemption from relegation for "x" years, which would give them the best chance to grow.
This would possibly be to the detriment of clubs like Leigh, Halifax and Featherstone but, that would be the sensible way forward.
If not, one of those clube could well yo-yo for a few seasons and then fail and whilst some would be happy with this, it would do nothing whatsoever to benefit the game as a whole and there is still the fundamental issue of whether the inclusion of N.American clubs in SL is a decent way forward, i'm still to be convinced.

as do you flatearthers who are in complete denial.

You've had 125 years and still the lowest 6 supported clubs in the top tier delivered 6,150 as an average last year whilst the top 6 nearly double that at 11,900. It's no mystery that the top 6 are the clubs who have won or challenged for honours over the last 22 years whilst the bottom 6 have all danced with or been actually relegated.......and whilst they spend to stay up, they have no infrastructure development, meaning they play in dumps or rented homes and all 6 are reliant on cash from a benefactor to stay afloat!

It's not expansion for expansion sake BTW.......I have serious doubts about the spin and PR coming from Toronto and Gy teachers with tens of millions in NY, but I 100% reject the away fans argument. Oh......"the buzz" doesn't pay the bills and if you're club rely in away fans for income then you don't deserve to be at the top table, simple as!

1. Fair enough
2. Compare apples with apples please, Wigans second highest home gate was on a shocking Friday night against a team that finished second bottom
3. You think having 3 French sides wont be of interest to a French broadcaster or the local populous
4. At that time London were an established SL club and someone once told me a lot of Kiwis and Cons live in that part of the world - far less brits live near Avignon to swell the gate