what i don't get about the whole expansion business is that for years folk have been decrying the game for being too insular and confined to the m62 corridor (rightly or wrongly that is the perception). then as soon as someone comes along who is prepared to introduce the game to different markets we get critisisms, mockery and downright hostility - people who would dance about if the clubs failed and we went back to a few clubs in the north again. i'm old enough to remember hostility towards london and their relegation and quota exemptions and a similar thing happened in the early days of catalans

taking aside the business models and some of the management comments and decisions of these new clubs, surely any venture which exposes rugby league to a whole new audience who are actually keen and free of some of the entrenchments of the traditional game can only be a good thing. Playing in the UK is a necessity for now but who's to say a north american league cannot start in 10 years time or so. if we don't give these clubs a chance we will never find out.

Sean Wane put it perfectly on backchat.

Rugby League in the country doesn't need outside enemies. It kills itself with all the negativity and people hoping something new fails.

Toronto have been around for four years now. How much work within the community has been done in this time? Do they have an academy? Are they and the governing body making any efforts to get the sport played in local schools? What about some amateur clubs, have the governing body helped to get any set up and running?

I'm all for expansion and growing the game but you have to start at the very bottom and work up. It's not going to work if you take shortcuts. Doing this right will take years as you say. Are the Toronto/Ottawa/New York money men willing to stick around that long for success? I'm doubtful.

Decent post.
Perhaps if there was some honesty and transparency as to what RL is hoping to achieve, the more cynical ones among us would climb on board.

The fear is that half of the "traditional" clubs may go bust in the chase for the N. American dream and although Leeds, Saints and Wigan would be safe (probably), there is a real danger that some of the UK based clubs could disappear on the back of the experiment and this is where the hostility comes from.

Plus of course the balmy logistics in playing some weekly games 3500 miles from the UK - in an era where some are trying to persuade people to travel less to "save the planet" RL seems to be doing the opposite - this will be for another day if/when climate change becomes even more important.

What do you want them to do? Scrap around in the lower leagues for 5 years?

They started at the bottom and won promotion. Ottawa are starting at the bottom unless you propose putting them in pub leagues. The whole point of this exercise is to start franchises which grow into big clubs in the sport. We do not need North American sides slumming it at the bottom. That does nothing for the sport!

Valencia, Toronto, New York, Ottowa, Toulouse, Red Star Belgrade, London, York, Leigh, Featherstone, Bradford, Widnes, Newcastle. Two tier super league anyone?

Traditional clubs have had over 100 years to get their own houses in order and to grow into sustainable business's.

Where did I say that? Read what I put.
Toronto are playing in the only structure available to them, it's not their fault. I just wonder what happens if/when they get relegated. Hopefully they persevere and start to develop their own talent. But like I said, it will take a long time.

Which is why they shouldn't be relegated. Relegation shouldn't be an option for Toronto. It should be scrapped as we don't even have two leagues to make it sustainable but SL itself should have come together and accepted for the greater good Toronto remain in SL no matter what.

Oh that one again
I would say that if they have been around for 100 + years, they have been extremely sustainable

Also, remember just why we play in summer.
Two of the biggest clubs of the 80's and 90's (Wigan and Widnes)brought themselves and the sport to the verge of bankruptcy.

I wont be here to mark my businesses centenary but, if it makes it, I would view that as success, YOU clearly wouldn't

Also worth noting that the new clubs simply couldn't and wouldn't exist if it wasn't for thos clubs that have helped get the sport to where it is.
If they were so fecking good, we'd all want to join the N. American League...............................if only there was one

I am an expansionist, but this Canada nonsense is crackers.

You can tell me I'm a luddite, flat capper etc. I am not, I just know a farce when I see one.

Are you deliberately talking nonsense ?

We know that we support a game that isn't in great financial health and so we decide to add new clubs 3500 miles away, that cant play a full set of home fixtures during the regular season, (Ottawa will be slightly worse as they will be even further north), increase the cost burden for all of the existing clubs, hand over "our" players etc, etc, when there has been little to no effort so far for Toronto to begin finding their own "homegrown" players, either from the existing American RL or from Union.

The Bankruptcy (or the brink of it), if you can remember came immediately before the inception of SL, when Maurice Linsdsay of Wigan brokered a TV deal with Sky as his club, along with certain others had brought the game to it's knees.
The issue with having multiple N. American clubs, plus Catalan and Toulouse, in the comp is that they add to the costs of EVERY competing club and as I mentioned, the sport is not awash with cash, far from it.
Most businesses if things were tight, would not wish to take on additional cost, plus the loss of revenue from the lack of visiting fans etc.

Its great to look at the potential upside to all of this but, if the sport were being responsible, it would also take note of the potential downside, not least that Toronto need huge injections of cash to survive and profit seems not to be remotely neccessary or likely.

All the lads and lasses there
They all had smilin' faces...

Quote: puroresu_boy "Again when you have a sport where so many are hellbent on sticking to the M62.... Why do we stage World Cup games in different areas of the country but do nothing else? World cup 2021 venues. South West? East Midlands? No let's not bother.'" They were constrained to hold something like 80% of the RLWC 2021 games in the North to comply with funding (which was allocated to Northern projects). https://www.rlnews.co.uk/80-of-world-cu ... f-england/

Quote: puroresu_boy "Again when you have a sport where so many are hellbent on sticking to the M62.... Why do we stage World Cup games in different areas of the country but do nothing else? World cup 2021 venues. South West? East Midlands? No let's not bother.'" They were constrained to hold something like 80% of the RLWC 2021 games in the North to comply with funding (which was allocated to Northern projects). https://www.rlnews.co.uk/80-of-world-cu ... f-england/