shouldn't be banned. There should, however, be an absolute burden on the tackler to carry out the tackle in a safe way. Contact with the head, deliberate or accidental, should be a straight red card. Prioritise clean & safe tackling rather then reckless and dangerous big hits.

the amateur game is a stepping stone to the pro game. so why ban something in the amateur game and then allow those players to use it in the pro game should they make it there?

and i never said there are legal tackles/tactics/techniques that cause more injuries. i said there are far worse things that go on in the amateur game that need to be cracked down on more effectively e.g head highs, punching, stamping and even deliberate attacks to the groin area. all off these i've been on the receiving end of, and i'd rather take a shoulder charge any day of the week, especially compared to the last one. i think if these things were cracked down on, as well as the general thugs you talk about, it may go some way to solving the problem of participation levels

Yes but its only when you play Queens though

I agree, but those things are currently against the rules so doesn't need a change in the rules, just the currently pathetic bodies to properly enforce them and hand out proper punishments to both clubs and players. I just don't see a need for a tackling technique that even pro's struggle to get right. And yes the amateur game is a stepping stone, but it's also a very different scenario. In the pro game the players are getting paid and the aim of the pro game is to win. The amateur game is obviously played by people getting no financial reward and little backup if they get an injury, also the ultimate aim of clubs, coaches and players in the amateur shouldn't be the same "win" mentality as that of pro clubs and players, the aim should be to improve and to enjoy the sport. In that kind of mentality there's no need for a shoulder charge.
We have to get the amateur game away from the ridiculous attitude it currently has.

i'm sorry, but i don't get that mentality. i have never, ever taken to a rugby pitch with the attitude thats its just a game and i'm there for participation purposes only. if you don't want to win, whats the point? even as a young lad of 7/8 we always played to win. i just don't get this mentality thats around today. its like at school sports days where "everyones a winner" and everyone gets a prize!! maybe thats why are national teams are so good at dealing with failure, because some people just don't care about winning?

and i don't know what amateur club you maybe involved with, but the club i'm involved with does try to help players who are injured and missing work, players can also take out insurance to cover themselves in case of injuries. Whats wrong with coaches and players in the amateur game having a professional attitude towards the game? in my opinion the changes in coaching techniques, training methods and the attitude of amateur players have seen the amateur game come on in leaps and bounds in the 18 years i've been an OA player. the standard of amateur rugby is far better now than it was, i can assure you, its just like we agree, there are certain elements that governing bodies need to clamp down on.

The data coming out of the NFL and NASCAR will mean we'll have to ban the outside of the shoulder barge, I'm sure we'll be able to hit hard with the top of the shoulder without having to bring the arm around too much.

Playing to win is one thing - coaching a junior team however, requires a bit more of a rounded approach; if winning is the only thing that's valued for example, and the youngsters fail to do so on a regular basis, they soon get downhearted and disillusioned - what's more important is to coach for development.

This is not just the job of coaches by the way - parents and guardians need to understand the concept as well, otherwise they can be quite a negative influence.

Also chuck in there the fact that in England, people believe that the aussies have better facilities, coaching, training techniques and sports science.

Removing that illusion from our psyche would be a positive also.

I would then ask why your only reason for playing the game is to win?
It's not a mentality of "everyone's a winner" (nor do I think that attitude is or ever has been widespread either these days or in the past), it's realising that there is more to the sport than winning and realising what level you are actually playing at. As I said its a working men's club on top of a hill, so why are players/coaches/spectators/parents acting like its the Cup Final? Maybe we wouldn't be so good at failure if we had many, many more people participating in amateur rugby league by making it more attractive to those not of a violent persuasion.

Don't talk rubbish. There is virtually no help for amateur players who get injuries, clubs can't afford to pay for say a joiner who has to miss work due to an injury, and players aren't going to take out additional insurance, that's just cloud cuckoo land. Yes there is the standard insurance but that's virtually useless unless someone is very seriously injured and even then isn't great. To try and suggest that amateur players are somehow "covered" to a similar extent as pro players with the insurance, physios and rehab available to them is just plain daft.
You think the coaches and players in the amateur game take a professional approach? That's simply ridiculous. They are some of the most unprofessional, pathetic, unnecessarily violent and backward looking people I've ever met.
I've no doubt the standard is slightly better across the board, but until the unnecessary "win at all costs" mentality is gone from players, coaches, clubs and parents then it will not progress. The amateur game has to realise that it has a dual role at all levels and age groups. Yes it has to produce players, but it also has to support and expand the sport. It does pretty poorly at the former and is utterly pathetic at the latter.
We have to take a note from Union where, especially at Junior and Open Age levels, the mentality is very much about enjoyment and not winning.

the reason i play rugby, and have done for 29 years, is that i love playing the game. i would never take to the pitch however without the mentality to win. i've participated in many games, hundreds probably, that have not contained the violence or thuggery you seem to think is evident in every amateur game!

i'm not talking rubbish, as you claim. i never once said that clubs cover a persons wage. what i said is the club i play for helps injured players, this is done via fundraising events which raise money which is then distributed to said injured players. as for insurance policies, the last one had was very reasonable and prompt at paying unlike some. the amount paid out depended on your level of cover, if you pay peanuts for cover you receive peanuts in payout! we also have a physio who attends on match days and at training, the last amateur club i played for also had a physio, in fact i know of quite a few clubs that pay for match day physios. the standard of the amateur game at some levels is very good. have you ever watched an NCL game? National cup final? yorks/lancs/cumbria cup final?

i'm glad that your opinion of coaches in the amateur game is so high, does this band of thugs you mention include the current SL players/ ex SL players/ ex pro coaches that give up their spare time to coach amateurs and attend games on saturday afternoons?

i can only assume that from your postings you've had a very bad experience during a rugby game either that or you're jealous of those that have had good experiences or play for clubs that do care.

Stu,

IMO there should be far less amateur teams the RFL should set a limit. You should be supporting SL or if you really have to, Championship/Ch1 teams. And should never leave till after the final whistle.

i think we need more quality teams and better run competitions for amateurs. the NCL for example, is well run and standards are high both on and off the pitch. and tbf i'd rather watch a game of amateur rugby than sl or cc rugby

Yeah, of course; look, stop denying yourself watching Slater, Barba, Tomkins, Watkins etc.

Ay, Windsoe Wolves or the Melbourne Storm, mmmmmmmm??? Yeah, I know where who'll I watch.