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Quote: Starbug "No it wasnt, you put a link to something you didnt read it would seem

If it was 7 K, hardly a ' substancial ' amount'"


That depends on the club in question. To a SL club, 7k might not be a great deal of money, but for a club at Rochdale's level? It can be the difference between life and death.

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kcab sfrawdder Luck is a combination of preparation and opportunity Just to avoid confusion Starbug is the username of Steven Pike SOMEBODY SAID that it couldn’t be done But he with a chuckle replied That “maybe it couldn’t,” but he would be one Who wouldn’t say so till he’d tried. So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin On his face. If he worried he hid it. He started to sing as he tackled the thing That couldn’t be done, and he did it!:9005.jpg



Quote: roofaldo2 "That depends on the club in question. To a SL club, 7k might not be a great deal of money, but for a club at Rochdale's level? It can be the difference between life and death.'"


So how much was the loan ?

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Quote: roofaldo2 "I put the link to the story on there. It was £7k to pay off the Inland Revenue.'"


Not necessarily correct what the article actually said was:

"The loan is around £7,000 short of the club’s current tax bill – but Hornets’ directors will make up the shortfall."

That can clearly be read in two ways, either the loan was £7,000 which was short of the total required OR the loan was the value of the tax bill less £7,000

The Manchester Evening News school of grammar and punctuation strikes again

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kcab sfrawdder Luck is a combination of preparation and opportunity Just to avoid confusion Starbug is the username of Steven Pike SOMEBODY SAID that it couldn’t be done But he with a chuckle replied That “maybe it couldn’t,” but he would be one Who wouldn’t say so till he’d tried. So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin On his face. If he worried he hid it. He started to sing as he tackled the thing That couldn’t be done, and he did it!:9005.jpg



Quote: BartonFlyer "Not necessarily correct what the article actually said was

Why did you have to spoil it? ,he clearly cannot read properly as I was going to point out

In fact it looks likely that the loan was more than 7 K , proving his point even more, still completely irrelivant though, the Bulls are a mess, their administration for the last 5/6 years has been abysmal and they have been well supported by the RFL, over and above what they were probably due

But thats in the past, time for them to stand on their own two feet, wherever that might be

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Quote: Starbug "Why did you have to spoil it? ,he clearly cannot read properly as I was going to point out

In fact it looks likely that the loan was more than 7 K , proving his point even more, still completely irrelivant though, the Bulls are a mess, their administration for the last 5/6 years has been abysmal and they have been well supported by the RFL, over and above what they were probably due

But thats in the past, time for them to stand on their own two feet, wherever that might be'"


Yeah, I mis-read the article. rlThis onerlhowever, has a few more interesting figures. A winding up order for £55k, the RFL loan being around £7k short, meaning a loan of around £48k. Which as you pointed out, makes my point even more solid. And as the argument was that the Bulls have been solitary in their support from the RFL, I don't see how other clubs getting the same sort of hand ups can be irrelevant.

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Yet again a potential misreading!
The article in The News & Star does state that the winding up order was for £55,000 to HMRC but also says:

"Rochdale, who were established back in 1871, had debts totalling £190,000, with £150,000 of that owed to the Inland Revenue and Customs and Excise, with a further £40,000 due to local suppliers"

Couple that with the MEN article which refers to "... the club's current tax bill...." which would include IR and Customs & Excise and the loan could well have been £143,000 ie £7K short of £150K

Don't they do comprehension in schools any more?

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kcab sfrawdder Luck is a combination of preparation and opportunity Just to avoid confusion Starbug is the username of Steven Pike SOMEBODY SAID that it couldn’t be done But he with a chuckle replied That “maybe it couldn’t,” but he would be one Who wouldn’t say so till he’d tried. So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin On his face. If he worried he hid it. He started to sing as he tackled the thing That couldn’t be done, and he did it!:9005.jpg



Quote: roofaldo2 "Yeah, I mis-read the article. rlThis onerlhowever, has a few more interesting figures. A winding up order for £55k, the RFL loan being around £7k short, meaning a loan of around £48k. Which as you pointed out, makes my point even more solid. And as the argument was that the Bulls have been solitary in their support from the RFL, I don't see how other clubs getting the same sort of hand ups can be irrelevant.'"


Last post on this complete mess, 48 K is a lot different to 600 K, nobody is suggesting other clubs haven't had support from the RFL, Leigh were supported by them a couple of seasons ago

It is the level of support, the clandestine nature of it, the complete ' bull ' that was used to justify it, the fact this support was needed a matter of months after they had been awarded a ' B ' licence

Its the whole sorry mess, defend it all you want , would other lesser profile clubs have recieved similar? , we dont really know, personally, I doubt it

Lets hope the latest people in the hot seat get it right, because I doubt they'll be offered it again

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It's also to do with the fact they spent lots of money, money they didn't have, turning themselves into an "iconic" club.

The sport then ran around to keep their licence, a system, we are repeatedly told, that persuades clubs from overspending. Remember their "B" licence? I don't know if it's ironic or just shoddy administration of the licensing system.

The sport has to rally around the next club this happens to, whatever its level, in the same way. Giving a green light for clubs to continue bad financial management! Brilliant

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//www.pngnrlbid.com [quote="bUsTiNyAbALLs":9q9d2t35]Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.[/quote:9q9d2t35] [quote="vastman":9q9d2t35]My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.[/quote:9q9d2t35]:



Quote: gutterfax "You really can't handle a bit of debate can you? If it's not name calling it's pages and pages of utter unintelligible tripe....you are proof perfect of the old warning.

[iNever argue with an idiot! If you do, he'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience![/i'"

You aren't trying to have a debate, you are trolling. Your ridiculous contradiction simply highlights it. You aren't going to fool anyone by pretending to be the victim now Mr Busted Flush

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//www.pngnrlbid.com [quote="bUsTiNyAbALLs":9q9d2t35]Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.[/quote:9q9d2t35] [quote="vastman":9q9d2t35]My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.[/quote:9q9d2t35]:



Quote: freddies wig "It's also to do with the fact they spent lots of money, money they didn't have, turning themselves into an "iconic" club.

The sport then ran around to keep their licence, a system, we are repeatedly told, that persuades clubs from overspending. Remember their "B" licence? I don't know if it's ironic or just shoddy administration of the licensing system.

The sport has to rally around the next club this happens to, whatever its level, in the same way. Giving a green light for clubs to continue bad financial management! Brilliant'"

The problem is that when circumstances aren't the same, the response can't be the same and nor should we expect it to be.

For example Wakefield have no assets to secure against, the have no stadium or owned facilities with value to act as collateral. Bradford did. Do the RFL need to extend a loan to Wakefield as the did to Bradford to be treating them fairly?

And I think this green light o bad management issue is a red herring. No one wants to be losing money, by the time we reach this point the owners have already lost money and are already likely to be gone or going. This is about how we recover clubs for the game, those who got them into that position will lose out.

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//www.pngnrlbid.com [quote="bUsTiNyAbALLs":9q9d2t35]Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.[/quote:9q9d2t35] [quote="vastman":9q9d2t35]My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.[/quote:9q9d2t35]:



Quote: DemonUK "Didn't OK take out a loan of £300k from the local council within months of starting up again..hope they didn't forget to put that in the books.

So according to Smokey the loan was paid back plus a million pounds (what was that? A donation?). If this was the case and all this money went to the RFL why isn't the lease back with Bradford'"

It was paid back through the lease. The million plus pound was taken from the bulls share of SLE and sky funding. That money was given to other SL clubs.

A £700k loan secured against the lease on Odsal has cost Bradford over £1m in sky funding and the lease. This according to some is a sweetheart deal for Bradford.

To those who think this was a good deal, if you want to send me a PM I have some really attractive financial products to talk to you about.

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The Licensing report for the Bulls read:

Bradford Bulls provided a solid submission detailing a strategy, tactical plan and targets to achieve improved commercial and financial performance. The club has a solid fan base, a strong brand and good operating structure/governance in place. However the club faces some challenges. These include the local economic environment, poor recent on-field performance and an ageing facility. The application acknowledges these challenges; however the club believes that its business plan for the next three years will move it to a position of sustainability with good prospects for further growth. The club has invested heavily in its youth performance programme in recent years, and it is expected that the club will soon start to reap the rewards of this investment with improved performances and increased numbers of quality club-trained players.

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Quote: BartonFlyer "Yet again a potential misreading!
The article in The News & Star does state that the winding up order was for £55,000 to HMRC but also says

So, what you're saying is that once again I've vastly under estimated the level of support the RFL have given to another club? Gee... How could I have made such a mistake? It seems my point about the Bulls not being alone in receiving aid from the RFL or some how getting preferential treatment just keeps getting stronger.

I'd say Rochdale have a lesser profile than Bradford, yet they seemed to have been given a comparable level of support.

As for the so called clandestine nature of the support Bradford have gotten, it seems many on here feel that the RFL should run all their business dealings past them first for vetting. But in the real world, businesses tend to keep their dealings to themselves. And as everyone seems to know the ins and outs of things at Bradford, it's hardly an Area 51 style conspiracy is it?

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Quote: SmokeyTA "For example Wakefield have no assets to secure against, the have no stadium or owned facilities with value to act as collateral. Bradford did. Do the RFL need to extend a loan to Wakefield as the did to Bradford to be treating them fairly?'"

Am I right in thinking the initial £700k was secured against nothing, and only when the RFL realised they were unlikely to see that again another £500k was 'payed' on top of the previous loan to prevent predatory developers getting their hands on the 'iconic' Odsal.

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Quote: Wadski "The Licensing report for the Bulls read

Indeed. In the last 3 years the RFL senior officials have given Bulls owners and their financial plans the green light on numerous occasions and yet here we are again firefighting. Yet it appears no one at the RFL is accountable for this shambles.

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