Quote: Cronus "Farrell carried an iffy Wigan team through the entire season and was excellent in the Tri-Nations (you know, a decent international challenge). He won Man of Steel and Golden Boot that year so he was doing something right. Minichiello was the pretty much the Slater of his day. He won the Harry Sunderland, Dally M full-back and Golden Boot that year so he was doing something right.'"
So your definition of ‘best’ is ‘doing something right’. Kevin Sinfield captained his side to a World Club Challenge, Super League and a CC final, he won the Harry Sunderland award and Golden Boot, surely he ‘must be doing something right’.
Quote: Cronus "No, if you place their results from Feb-Nov alongside some other teams, they had a pretty average season.
What they did do was have a better play-off and grand final run. A 'season' runs from February to October. They were not the best team during that period. They were the best team in the last few weeks.'"
Why would anyone look at the season in a different format to the one it actually runs under?
Quote: Cronus "So why mentioned winning competitions when Golden Boot winners haven't generally been champions during the year of their award?'"
Because as i explained to you, we have a measure of quality. We have competitions, and their entire existence is to test and measure quality. Wigan were weighed, measured and and found wanting, Leeds quality shone through. So Leeds get a trophy and can call themselves the best team in the world for another season, Wigan dont. Kevin Sinfield was instrumental in that.
Quote: Cronus "Actually, YOU said "The aim of an RL player is to win competitions...Anything else is irrelevant."'"
That is true. The aim of an RL player is to win competitions.
Quote: Cronus "That may be true, but we're talking about the Golden Boot. Let me put this clearly. The winner of the Golden Boot has not played for the champion side in the majority of years. That would seem to indicate that, contrary to what you've written, winning competitions is NOT an indicator of who is the best player in the world.'"
are you really, actually saying that competing against your peers isn’t an indicator of quality? Do you understand what a competition is? Do you understand what an indicator is?
Quote: Cronus "I didn't say they had "set out to achieve recognition". You're making things up.'"
No, you said thats what you needed to do win awards. Are these awards not won by effort, do people not try to win them? or are they just meaningless by products of a season?
Quote: Cronus "But in pretty much all cases, the winners have led from the front, displaying outstanding skills, try scoring abiltiies, toughness, etc. And if you think even the most team-motivated player wouldn't love to win it, you're being very naive. Winning an individual award isn't be at the expense of your team as you seem to be hinting at.'"
No, but what you seem to be missing is that there is a clear and obvious aim for sport. That is to win. That is how we define best, by the winners. That’s why we have competitions. The whole point of sport is to measure the respective qualities of the participants. Its why you get ‘points’ its why we have trophies, the entire reason for sport existing is to find out who is the best. If you win a competition, you are by definition the best team in that competition. You can be the best passer, the best runner, the best try-scorer, the best every individual skill going, but if you cant put that together in a package which makes a signification contribution to success, then you aren’t the best player. Being a professional sportsman is about more than the individual skills needed to play that sport. If Kevin Sinfield, through nothing more than sheer force of will, be the main reason why his team are champions (again), then he is a better player than someone who has all the skill in the world but not the intangibles Sinfield does.
If an individual award isn’t reflective of a contribution to the overall success of the side, then in a team sport, the individual award is less than meaningless.
Quote: Cronus "
Yes, it's a team sport, but the Golden Boot is an individual award.'"
Yes, so the individual who i best, who is the one who contributes most to the teams success.
Quote: Cronus "Again, I didn't say that. Making things up again. But take a look at previous winners. Those skills are there in abundance and would appear to be fairly important.'"
Sinfield is far better at many aspects of the game than Andy Farrell was, and certainly the Andy Farrell of 2004. There are things that Kevin Sinfield is better at than Greg Inglis
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Ill not argue that Sifield is a more exciting player than Barba, ill not argue he is faster, a better runner, a better finisher, better to watch, scores better tries, I don’t think Sinfield is better than Barba at any of those things. But if the game was 26 Ben Barba’s playing, and it had no more depth than who scores the flashiest try, I probably wouldn’t bother watching it.
don't think it's him on the crusade old lad I reckon it's you.
Storm are renowned for taking nobody players, players unwanted and making them part of something special. The cheating jibe is a cheap shot BTW. How many clubs have cheated in the past in Britain / Aus etc. Next you will be telling me that Wigan simply won countless CC / Championships due to money.
