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Quote: Saddened! "1 - Tomkins 3/10 poor. No involvement in attack, no defensive qualities at all. Has potential.
2 - Goulding 2/10. Simply not good enough at this level, offers nothing. Shocking selection over Ryan Hall.
3 - Cudjoe 3/10. Defensively naive but playing out of position. Should have been on wing.
4 - Atkins 1/10. Two of the worst international performances ever. NEVER AGAIN!
5 - Briscoe 3/10. Has potential like Tomkins, but too soon. Made too many errors.
6 - O'Loughlin 5/10. No half back, decent effort however.
7 - Robinson 7/10. Plenty of mistakes but one to show his hand and try something at least.
8 - Graham 6/10. Good effort again but in a limp pack.
9 - Roby 4/10. Too many errors, no real injection from dummy half.
10 - Burgess 3/10. Shocking until it was too late.
11 - Tomkins 1/10. WAY too early for him. In another year he MIGHT be up to this level.
12 - Ellis 3/10. Playing the NRL has done nothing for him.
13 - Westwood 8/10. Can hold his head up, one of very few over the two games.

14 - Lunt 5/10. Reasonable and has potential but debateable if he's up to this level.
15 - Crabtree 6/10. Good effort but needs to have more impact if used from the bench.
16 - Fielden 3/10. Shocking to call him up. Soft, limp, beaten.
17 - Harrison 5/10. Another with potential that is not yet ready.

Of the list I'd only want to keep S Tomkins, Cudjoe, Briscoe, Frodo (Not at 6) Graham, Roby, Burgess and Westwood.

Another year, another abstract failure. Australia didn't put 100% effort into that. They proved in the first half they could score whenever they wanted to. I'd love to see a situation where Australia have to score a set number of points, so we can see where we truly are against them. The refereeing didn't help but we're massively behind still.'"



Joke rating for Joel Tomkins. He was average but did little wrong and got through plenty of work.

I'd rate them-

S Tomkins- 5- He was targeted and had no room to move in.
Goulding-5- A decent superleague player but not upto this level
Cudjoe-4- He really struggled in the first half and looked very nervous
Atkins-3- He had an appaling game. His defence is terrible and he's dumb with the ball
Briscoe-5- He tries hard and will continue to improve- Awful attempt to defuse the first half bomb
O'Loughlin-5- Never a stand off and when he started to play his natural game in the 2nd half looked miles better
Robinson-7- Tries his heart out and caused problems
Burgess-6- Caused problems for the Aussies but too many errors as usual
Roby-7- Big stint in defence and tested them out of dummy half at times but a couple of daft errors
Graham-7- He always gives it his all and showed his ball skills
Ellis-6- Didn't stand out but worked hard
Westwood-8- Our mom for me. He has come on leaps and bounds as a player
J Tomkins-6- Same as Ellis.

subs
Crabtree-5- Did very little
Fielden-6- Thought he had a good 2nd half spell
Harrison-5- Didn't seem to get much chance to make an impact.
Lunt-6- I thought he gave it a real crack and should have been awarded a benefit of the doubt try.

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Quote: MacBlondie "You sound like Saddened and Stevo, ergo, someone who doesnt have a clue about hooker play and thinks the best hookers are those that make the most runs from dummy half.

Question for you, what is the point of a 12 stone player, running from dummy half at a set defensive line, when its better to give it to a forward who is hitting the gain line at speed? Answers on a post card to Stevo and Saddened.'"
So the best hookers arn't the ones who make good yards and breaks? John Thursfield must have been the best hooker of his era then.

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Quote: Saddened! "1 - Tomkins 3/10 poor. No involvement in attack, no defensive qualities at all. Has potential.
2 - Goulding 2/10. Simply not good enough at this level, offers nothing. Shocking selection over Ryan Hall.
3 - Cudjoe 3/10. Defensively naive but playing out of position. Should have been on wing.
4 - Atkins 1/10. Two of the worst international performances ever. NEVER AGAIN!
5 - Briscoe 3/10. Has potential like Tomkins, but too soon. Made too many errors.
6 - O'Loughlin 5/10. No half back, decent effort however.
7 - Robinson 7/10. Plenty of mistakes but one to show his hand and try something at least.
8 - Graham 6/10. Good effort again but in a limp pack.
9 - Roby 4/10. Too many errors, no real injection from dummy half.
10 - Burgess 3/10. Shocking until it was too late.
11 - Tomkins 1/10. WAY too early for him. In another year he MIGHT be up to this level.
12 - Ellis 3/10. Playing the NRL has done nothing for him. '"


Sorry, but some of these are absolute rubbish!
Goulding didn't put a foot wrong and had an absolute muppet playing inside him.
Cudjoe was as bad as Atkins - his hesitancy allowed them to stroll right through.
Roby was probably our best player. In defence he was great, set up our try and made some decent yards. At least a 7.
SOL was poor at 6, not decent.
And Ellis, 3 out of 10? Not sure what's more of a joke, your score for him, or your quote after it...

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Not going to rate the whole team cannot be bothered but just a few stats for people to reflect on and look at them without club bias.

--------------Runs (m)----T.Brks---Tackles--Missed tackles-Offloads--Errors---Pen Conc.
12. Joel Tomkins -- 7 (42m)--1 ------27 ----------2-----------1 --------0-------0-----
13. Ben Westwood 7 (42m) --1 ------33 ----------4-----------2---------1-------2

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Why have you selected them 2- are you upset that your precious Wigan 12 has been found not to be int standard

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Quote: DP_wwrlfc "Not going to rate the whole team cannot be bothered but just a few stats for people to reflect on and look at them without club bias.

--------------Runs (m)----T.Brks---Tackles--Missed tackles-Offloads--Errors---Pen Conc.
12. Joel Tomkins -- 7 (42m)--1 ------27 ----------2-----------1 --------0-------0-----
13. Ben Westwood 7 (42m) --1 ------33 ----------4-----------2---------1-------2'"

Well, I'm from Wigan - am I allowed to comment?

Apart from the penalties conceded, Westwood was miles better than Joel Tomkins, much stronger going forward and punishing defence. Tomkins work rate was OK but little impact

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Quote: DP_wwrlfc "Not going to rate the whole team cannot be bothered but just a few stats for people to reflect on and look at them without club bias.

--------------Runs (m)----T.Brks---Tackles--Missed tackles-Offloads--Errors---Pen Conc.
12. Joel Tomkins -- 7 (42m)--1 ------27 ----------2-----------1 --------0-------0-----
13. Ben Westwood 7 (42m) --1 ------33 ----------4-----------2---------1-------2'"

The error stat is wrong for a start, J Tomkins knocked on in the 2nd half.
Plus Westwood's metres were made up the middle of the park where as J Tomkins were mostly in the centres as he spent most of the game hiding there and doing it really well, as he was hardly noticed.

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Not surprising stats to be honest. Westwood puts in the work but he still concedes too many penalties IMO. His needless penalty for holding down gave the Aussies the opening try.

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Sam Tomkins? did he do anything? I thought he was the weapon to set England alight.
Widdop could not have done less than tomkins.

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Picked them 2 due to some of the ratings Joel seems to be getting. He was just as good as the "NRL superstar" that is Ellis. Westwood has been top quality the last two games i have no problem with saying that and im not saying Joel was as good as Westwood because he wasnt just stating he wasnt as bad some seem to be suggesting.

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Quote: Bully_Boxer "Not surprising stats to be honest. Westwood puts in the work but he still concedes too many penalties IMO. His needless penalty for holding down gave the Aussies the opening try.'"

Westwood was at fault for the 1st try was he? i didn't see him run the ball out of play when it was near enough dead like Tomkins did from Lockyer's grubber gifting the aussies another set of 6, and i didn't see him leave a huge hole for Luke Lewis to run through like Cudjoe did.

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Quote: DP_wwrlfc "Picked them 2 due to some of the ratings Joel seems to be getting. He was just as good as the "NRL superstar" that is Ellis. Westwood has been top quality the last two games i have no problem with saying that and im not saying Joel was as good as Westwood because he wasnt just stating he wasnt as bad some seem to be suggesting.'"


Joel Tomkins will be an international backrower, it's just way too early for him. Give him another year and he might be up to the physicality of it and the discipline required in defense.

I spent all game hoping to see his special move, the kick to the head of the ball carrier at the PTB. I was praying for it a few times.

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Quote: Famous "How can people give Cudjoe a better rating than any player when he was at fault for more tries than anyone?'"


Debatable, I think Goulding was at more fault. Briscoe as well. Both Wings were poor, and get this - Little Sam Tompkins is out of depth there. Get him to an NRL club fast. We need a full back thats bulkier than him.

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He was only as good as the stats tell you-Do you agree there was a difference with regards to performance between the 2 accepting the stats look similar.

Would you also agree that Joel is not Int standard accepting he was as bad as Ellis if that helps you with your pie eyed decision making?

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I said it after the last test. This one underlined it.

Sam Tomkins is neither big enough nor quick enough to trouble the Aussies at FB or SO. Fifteen years ago he'd have had a field day. But in this age of supergiant sprinters he's massively out-gunned.

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