Quote The Silent H="The Silent H"I like how people who aren't fans of Toronto feel that they can say whatever they like without linking sources to back up their opinions, and then expect others to disprove them. Debate doesn't work like that.'" https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/wh ... -wolfpack/ https://www.theguardian.com/sport/no-he ... ootball-us Go on then crack on and debate This is one the best link https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-le ... or-8388228

Quote The Silent H="The Silent H"I like how people who aren't fans of Toronto feel that they can say whatever they like without linking sources to back up their opinions, and then expect others to disprove them. Debate doesn't work like that.'" https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/wh ... -wolfpack/ https://www.theguardian.com/sport/no-he ... ootball-us Go on then crack on and debate This is one the best link https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-le ... or-8388228

Quote snowie="snowie"https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/who-next-for-toronto-wolfpack/ https://www.theguardian.com/sport/no-he ... ootball-us Go on then crack on and debate This is one the best link https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-le ... or-8388228 '" Thanks for actually providing real sources. You're the first to do. The first source is just a speculation piece and the other two are from several years ago so not relevant anymore. Anything recent?

Quote snowie="snowie"https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/who-next-for-toronto-wolfpack/ https://www.theguardian.com/sport/no-he ... ootball-us Go on then crack on and debate This is one the best link https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-le ... or-8388228 '" Thanks for actually providing real sources. You're the first to do. The first source is just a speculation piece and the other two are from several years ago so not relevant anymore. Anything recent?

None of them learned it adequately enough so the grid iron player development system promised was abandoned. There never was a "young player" development system despite people excusing that complete failure of grid iron conversions with the idea that you had to instead give TWP "time" to develop junior RL players into quality RL professionals.

TWP apologists were challenged to say how long that may take and they were saying 15-20 years. The odd thing about that was that junior player development was never on Argylle's agenda and still isn't. When Bob Jowitt ran a stall at Lamport to get people to join Canada RL, David Argylle walked straight past. To start any junior development you have to join the governing body. in a recent interview McDermott admitted that the club won't be helping to create a Canada Junior ARL, in which thousands of Canadian kids will play RL regularly and the best will go on to academies, and the best get in the reserves, and the best of those will become professionals in English Superleague.

So when it comes to developing players which all SL clubs have to do, and they do that via foundations (not TWP though) paying staff to promote the game locally (not TWP though) so that kids can play organised Junior RL (not TWP though) and the best gravitate to academies, reserves and then first team, TWP AND Catalans, refuse to do this because they can under the current RFL rules for membership of Superleague. Those rules have this season and next to run.

Already the 2022 rules have been announced for player development and clubs were told by Superleague, who will dictate the rules 2022, that they must run reserves, with SL pressing clubs NOW like Bradford Widnes and Newcastle who all have academies, to get reserves in place as soon as possible. [uI got all of this out of the RL press articles that quoted the Superleague bosses and their CEO directly, and i do urge people who want to pretend none of this is true, to look it all up as it's on public record.[/u

Now this IS conjecture, but it's pretty much nailed on that Argylle and Gausch who have responded to Superleague's requirement to create junior development by signing a couple of well past it RL stars from the some years ago on ridiculous sums of money, to SL's anger in the case of Folau, will not in any way meet English Superleague's requirement for all clubs to have a solid young player development system. It's rather obvious therefore neither club will make SL 2022 and if anyone is deeply interested in RL as opposed to trolling then the race to Superleague between leigh, Thunder, Bulls and Vikings will be a fascinating "reality" watch.

As opposed to the Folau and SBW nonsense.

Meanwhile Jean, Steph and silent H are welcome to discuss 2022's "Transatlantic League", but I will need some "evidence" that certain projected member clubs even exist beyond Perez's brain cells?, let alone Superleague will sacrifice English clubs to let them all in!





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Quote snowie="snowie" You don't reply to him because he makes you look very foolish, if you had anything about you you'd comeback with your evidence, '" Here's the evidence... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PIlV68mYc4 Eric Perez was David Argyle's spokesman for Argyles plan to enter the game here. Dave Woods asked what Mr. Argyle's money would bring to the game here from far off Canada. The first thing was a massive North American TV deal, north American TV would lap up rugby league, grid iron without helmets, how good is that?. When Woods pressed on the player development Argyle's plan was grid iron conversions BUT this too would be on reality TV as well and Canada would be enthralled as top Canadian college athletes trained and battled it out for places in the Wolfpack's team. At the back end of 2019 McDermott on behalf of Argylle had to admit TWP could not find a single cent in terms of TV money. People can look that up themselves. I don't know if the Mogul's from Fox Sports were at Headingley last sunday considering a deal - perhaps Silent H or Steph know?? At the back end of 2019 with TWP about to enter SL McDermott spoke about how TWP had failed to convert any grid iron players, and would not be developing juniors so they won't be running any academy or any reserves any time soon if ever. With Superleague bosses already setting the rules 2022 in terms of a mandatory requirement for foundation-academy-reserves at every club, and with them naming Newcastle, Widnes and Bradford as part of that mix...... One has to be an absolute dreamer to believe wolfpack and Dragons will be on Ian Lenegan's invitation list. To quote from a newspaper cutting I have ([usource - League express, journalist Mike Rylance)[/uwhen Lenegan visited Toulouse he said [i[u"superleague applications have to be backed by the evidence of home grown players and TV coverage"[/u[/i Simple as...... Now can people get it why Perez is at Bradford working for big Nige? Both of whom will be answerable to Ian Lenegan?

Quote snowie="snowie" You don't reply to him because he makes you look very foolish, if you had anything about you you'd comeback with your evidence, '" Here's the evidence... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PIlV68mYc4 Eric Perez was David Argyle's spokesman for Argyles plan to enter the game here. Dave Woods asked what Mr. Argyle's money would bring to the game here from far off Canada. The first thing was a massive North American TV deal, north American TV would lap up rugby league, grid iron without helmets, how good is that?. When Woods pressed on the player development Argyle's plan was grid iron conversions BUT this too would be on reality TV as well and Canada would be enthralled as top Canadian college athletes trained and battled it out for places in the Wolfpack's team. At the back end of 2019 McDermott on behalf of Argylle had to admit TWP could not find a single cent in terms of TV money. People can look that up themselves. I don't know if the Mogul's from Fox Sports were at Headingley last sunday considering a deal - perhaps Silent H or Steph know?? At the back end of 2019 with TWP about to enter SL McDermott spoke about how TWP had failed to convert any grid iron players, and would not be developing juniors so they won't be running any academy or any reserves any time soon if ever. With Superleague bosses already setting the rules 2022 in terms of a mandatory requirement for foundation-academy-reserves at every club, and with them naming Newcastle, Widnes and Bradford as part of that mix...... One has to be an absolute dreamer to believe wolfpack and Dragons will be on Ian Lenegan's invitation list. To quote from a newspaper cutting I have ([usource - League express, journalist Mike Rylance)[/uwhen Lenegan visited Toulouse he said [i[u"superleague applications have to be backed by the evidence of home grown players and TV coverage"[/u[/i Simple as...... Now can people get it why Perez is at Bradford working for big Nige? Both of whom will be answerable to Ian Lenegan?

Quote Donnyman="Donnyman"Here's the evidence... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PIlV68mYc4 Eric Perez was David Argyle's spokesman for Argyles plan to enter the game here. Dave Woods asked what Mr. Argyle's money would bring to the game here from far off Canada. The first thing was a massive North American TV deal, north American TV would lap up rugby league, grid iron without helmets, how good is that?. When Woods pressed on the player development Argyle's plan was grid iron conversions BUT this too would be on reality TV as well and Canada would be enthralled as top Canadian college athletes trained and battled it out for places in the Wolfpack's team. At the back end of 2019 McDermott on behalf of Argylle had to admit TWP could not find a single cent in terms of TV money. People can look that up themselves. I don't know if the Mogul's from Fox Sports were at Headingley last sunday considering a deal - perhaps Silent H or Steph know?? At the back end of 2019 with TWP about to enter SL McDermott spoke about how TWP had failed to convert any grid iron players, and would not be developing juniors so they won't be running any academy or any reserves any time soon if ever. With Superleague bosses already setting the rules 2022 in terms of a mandatory requirement for foundation-academy-reserves at every club, and with them naming Newcastle, Widnes and Bradford as part of that mix...... One has to be an absolute dreamer to believe wolfpack and Dragons will be on Ian Lenegan's invitation list. To quote from a newspaper cutting I have ([usource - League express, journalist Mike Rylance)[/uwhen Lenegan visited Toulouse he said [i[u"superleague applications have to be backed by the evidence of home grown players and TV coverage"[/u[/i Simple as...... Now can people get it why Perez is at Bradford working for big Nige? Both of whom will be answerable to Ian Lenegan?'" I don't know if you're being serious or trolling with that YouTube link. It's nearly 4 years old, Donald Trump wasn't even president. Anyone can dig up old material on any club. As for your previous post about 2022. The clubs you mention are not going to reach super league unless they achieve promotion. Newcastle are a L1 side, Widnes and Bradford are financial basketcases and we all know the troubles of Beaumont and Leigh.

Quote Donnyman="Donnyman"Here's the evidence... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PIlV68mYc4 Eric Perez was David Argyle's spokesman for Argyles plan to enter the game here. Dave Woods asked what Mr. Argyle's money would bring to the game here from far off Canada. The first thing was a massive North American TV deal, north American TV would lap up rugby league, grid iron without helmets, how good is that?. When Woods pressed on the player development Argyle's plan was grid iron conversions BUT this too would be on reality TV as well and Canada would be enthralled as top Canadian college athletes trained and battled it out for places in the Wolfpack's team. At the back end of 2019 McDermott on behalf of Argylle had to admit TWP could not find a single cent in terms of TV money. People can look that up themselves. I don't know if the Mogul's from Fox Sports were at Headingley last sunday considering a deal - perhaps Silent H or Steph know?? At the back end of 2019 with TWP about to enter SL McDermott spoke about how TWP had failed to convert any grid iron players, and would not be developing juniors so they won't be running any academy or any reserves any time soon if ever. With Superleague bosses already setting the rules 2022 in terms of a mandatory requirement for foundation-academy-reserves at every club, and with them naming Newcastle, Widnes and Bradford as part of that mix...... One has to be an absolute dreamer to believe wolfpack and Dragons will be on Ian Lenegan's invitation list. To quote from a newspaper cutting I have ([usource - League express, journalist Mike Rylance)[/uwhen Lenegan visited Toulouse he said [i[u"superleague applications have to be backed by the evidence of home grown players and TV coverage"[/u[/i Simple as...... Now can people get it why Perez is at Bradford working for big Nige? Both of whom will be answerable to Ian Lenegan?'" I don't know if you're being serious or trolling with that YouTube link. It's nearly 4 years old, Donald Trump wasn't even president. Anyone can dig up old material on any club. As for your previous post about 2022. The clubs you mention are not going to reach super league unless they achieve promotion. Newcastle are a L1 side, Widnes and Bradford are financial basketcases and we all know the troubles of Beaumont and Leigh.

It does show the promises from around 35 mins in and 4 years and still not achieved them

Shall we go back 4 years and see whether other clubs have achieved what they said as well?

Yes it's full evidence of the business plan upon which TWP were allowed to enter the Championships.

The application was made at a time when Nigel Wood was chasing an RLIF job so he was really stuck in terms of making a judgement on Toronto. If he said "no" even on the basis the plan was totally ridiculous then that would still make him look far from an Internationalist/expansionist. He was effectively ambushed and he conceded TWP's entry as guests.

TWP never once asked Superleague if they could enter that competition. The answer could easily have been NO so they never asked. What they did was check out the current agreement between the RFL and SL on league structures and note that guest clubs were allowed to enter Superleague if they won promotion to Superleague.

They promised home grown players via grid iron conversions but dropped that very quickly. I would not have minded that because they put in their team several USA/Canada players, and people like myself were pleased at that and hoping for more. But of course TWP were never about player development only about the wish of one man to own a professional Rugby League club wether in be in the RFL or IIRC in the NRL. On promotion to the Championship.....

They sacked their American players off

Now of course the application also said that they would get a paying TV deal to add to the pot here. The game gave them time for this but it never came. When challenged Perez said that he could get a massive NATV deal but Superleague had to have "at least 5-6 north american teams in it to provide the content for such an NATV deal

Given the state of the player pool and TWP's clear intention not to bother with development by sacking the NA players they had, 5-6 North American clubs could only enter Superleague at the expense of 5-6 clubs here. In short a Transatlantic League was impossible because such a set up would have lost us the SKY deal once we got down to only 8 English clubs.

The bottom line is we all crave expansion wether the casual speccy or visitor to this site, wether Martyn Sadler or Danny Lockwood, or Ian Lenegan and his colleagues........We all want to see a club bring us new professional players and new media money......but TWP failed to be that club...... and we should not go on pretending they are, and trolling away on websites like Silent H is doing or writing pieces in the RL press Editorials about how wonderful TWP are without a scrap of credible evidence.

In a few hours TWP may get their first win in SL - if so watch that be hailed as a great success for the expansion of RL in the Northern Hemisphere.

And I thought we were an honest game Snowy. Thanks for your input.

Yes lets, it will make a change from going over the same argument again and again.

Well, don't you think that the argument that if Superleague goes Transatlantic by adding more NA and French clubs and removing several useless English clubs let's say...

Wigan
Catalans
Toronto
St.helens
Avignon
Ottawa
Leeds
New York
Warrington
Toulouse
Hull
Valencia

Rugby League in the Northern Hemisphere will start to thrive and take off big time?? You see Wayne there are many of us who are sick and tired of hearing this argument, moreso because it's not a factual argument, it's just a silly dream.

So free speech pal. If you and others want to keep telling me the future is Transatlantic why can't I and others tell you the future is I am afraid the M62.

You like the idea of censorship do you? Go on Totalrl.com and you can fantasise all you want without factual opposition....

by all means you you know the drill no good quoting without evidence

Donnyman you are pushing against an open door here, if the expansionists want a NA super League let them have one that includes the French and the North Americans and leave us to play in our own back yard as we have done for the last 100 years or so, my post wasn't aimed at you or others that agree with you but a sarcastic reply to those that want to argue for the sake of it without having anything of substance to argue with. having said that Toronto for the time being at least are in SL but hopefully time will prove you right.