England were crying out for a 2 nd rower to take on the line and offload out wide rather than the ball being moved fast through hands, the Kiwis were cutting us off by pushing out the centres, a dummy, step back inside was needed

But we just didnt seem to have any ideas

We're Sam Burgess away from beating the pair of them imo. Our weakest area is in that second row where Burgess would have been and he's the best forward in the world and one of the top 3 players (long with Inglis and Thurston). Had we been able to call on him these past two weeks we'd have won both games and been sitting on the verge of making history.

It's not only his ability we lost but his leadership and his aura. He looks like he doesn't just believe he's the equal of these Aussies and Kiwi's anymore but that he is better then them and it's because he is. He would have dragged the lads along with him and got us over the line.

As it is we'll have to do it without him. We're getting pretty close but now we need to kick the door down and win a series or tournament.

Agree on the second row comments. Farrell is a cert but we did miss some punch, which perhaps Tomkins would have given us if he'd had a full season behind in. Ferres is solid enough but I think that Ablett might given us a bit more out wide. Once the Kiwis sussed out our attack we struggled and had to gamble a bit. As others have said, a big unit running short onto those balls would have been great.

As for somebody knocking Tom Burgess, I thought he was fantastic today. He never loses yards, pretty much winning every collision he's involved in.

How can we be "not be close to them yet" when the difference was the ball twice hitting an upright not once, but twice.

Agreed. We'd already be in the final now anyway were it not for the referee last week deliberately ruling against England because of the situation he found himself in. You have to feel that if this tournament was in England, we'd at least have reached the final.

If england continue the development they have shown under Mcnamara since 2010, I think they'll win the world cup in 2017.

Steven McNamara is probably the best coach England has had since Anthony Smith.

I thought Ferres had an excellent WC, but seemed to have a constant sulk on in this tournament, either because he wasn't picked outright or had to play on the wrong side.

Think we should have taken two points with the last minute penalty.

At least we'd be coming home with a draw against one of the big two. And a moral victory against the Aussies.

Just needed a bit more composure and more variety / creativity in attack. Thought both Tomkins' played well.

Nah we did the right thing. Just went the wrong way about it. They should have given it to Widdop. Stood everyone on the left touch line, and made it a lottery. A draw wouldn't have seen us progress (as it happens a win wouldn't have either but hey ho), so you've got to go for it. We will never make progress if we are content with moral victories.

J Tomkins was much improved in the NZ game tbf. But was anonymous in the other two.

Even before his move to union I wasn't convinced he was international standard, so he's got work to do to prove he deserves to be there imo.

Cannot really fault Ferres in this game. Started on the bench then played out of position but still managed 42 tackles which is some effort in defence.

Unfortunately Whitehead didn't get enough game time. Would have liked to see what he could do at this level but the limited time he got, when McNamara clearly favoured Tomkins, didn't allow him to show anything. Disappointing that you can just waltz back into the international side after just 4 months back in the game and he didn't show enough in game 1, for me, to be a pick for 2 and 3.

I like Whitehead and had looked forward to seeing him play, but it was clear within a few minutes he was out of his depth. He was totally dominated at every turn and didn't look confident at all - and as we should all know, RL is a confidence game. It was the correct decision to take him off.

I don't blame him for that, he's not played for a long time and this was his debut. Chuck him on at full match fitness and when he knows he's as good as, if not better than, the opposition and I think he'll go well. I just hope he learns from the experience and comes back stronger, he's a belting player.

That said, I also questioned the inclusion of Joel when there are a few good back rowers to choose from. I suspect it came down to experience of the big games and against Antipodean opposition. Joel did well enough but didn't really show a great deal going forward but then would any of the others against those defences?