Sorry but these are facts as regards TWP.....

No Player development ever
No Canadian TV money ever
No away fans
No glamour team
No marquee players thrilling the crowd.
No academy
No reserves
No Eric Perez - given up and gone to Bradford Bulls
No players want to play for them unless they are heavily overpaid
No protected status in SL come the 2022 season
No English fans here impressed at all with what they saw sunday

In your first ever reply to me you agreed wholeheartedly with my realistic stance. Tell me at what point did I upset you such that you decided to troll me?

No Player development ever Your opinion
No Canadian TV money ever Your opinion
No away fans Your opinion
No glamour team Your opinion
[/i]No marquee players thrilling the crowd. Your opinion
No academy
No reserves
No Eric Perez - given up and gone to Bradford Bulls. Your opinion
No players want to play for them unless they are heavily overpaid. Your opinion
No protected status in SL come the 2022 season. Your opinion
No English fans here impressed at all with what they saw sunday. Your opinion

I don't know why it's so hard for you to differentiate what is fact and what is not. Unless you have a crystal ball, out of the 11 things you listed, 9 of them are merely your opinion and have no factual evidence whatsoever.

As for agreeing with you, yes some points I do such as academy and reserves as that is factual. Unfortunately the rest of what you write isn't based on factual evidence. If it was then I might agree with you on that also.

If you say so

It's rather an odd stance to take given we've all had the chance to see TWP in action in Superleague and read about their own admitted failures on the TV money and player development fronts.

They have totally failed and Macca even admitted it, no players, no TV money, massive debt, but maybe you can set out for me, the path they can take to turn this round and achieve success???

Please make sure in your reply you back it with "facts" not fantasy - we've had three years of Fantasy from TWP. Enough is enough.....

He will never back up his claims with any shred of evidence. He will want you to disprove what he says. This is why I have given up replying to him. Its pointless

You don't reply to him because he makes you look very foolish, if you had anything about you you'd comeback with your evidence, let's start on the easy one where's the grid iron players that was branded about that could be taught the game

Quote: The Silent H "I like how people who aren't fans of Toronto feel that they can say whatever they like without linking sources to back up their opinions, and then expect others to disprove them. Debate doesn't work like that.'" https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/wh ... -wolfpack/ https://www.theguardian.com/sport/no-he ... ootball-us Go on then crack on and debate This is one the best link https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-le ... or-8388228

Quote: The Silent H "I like how people who aren't fans of Toronto feel that they can say whatever they like without linking sources to back up their opinions, and then expect others to disprove them. Debate doesn't work like that.'" https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/wh ... -wolfpack/ https://www.theguardian.com/sport/no-he ... ootball-us Go on then crack on and debate This is one the best link https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-le ... or-8388228

It does show the promises from around 35 mins in and 4 years and still not achieved them

Shall we go back 4 years and see whether other clubs have achieved what they said as well?

Yes it's full evidence of the business plan upon which TWP were allowed to enter the Championships.

The application was made at a time when Nigel Wood was chasing an RLIF job so he was really stuck in terms of making a judgement on Toronto. If he said "no" even on the basis the plan was totally ridiculous then that would still make him look far from an Internationalist/expansionist. He was effectively ambushed and he conceded TWP's entry as guests.

TWP never once asked Superleague if they could enter that competition. The answer could easily have been NO so they never asked. What they did was check out the current agreement between the RFL and SL on league structures and note that guest clubs were allowed to enter Superleague if they won promotion to Superleague.

They promised home grown players via grid iron conversions but dropped that very quickly. I would not have minded that because they put in their team several USA/Canada players, and people like myself were pleased at that and hoping for more. But of course TWP were never about player development only about the wish of one man to own a professional Rugby League club wether in be in the RFL or IIRC in the NRL. On promotion to the Championship.....

They sacked their American players off

Now of course the application also said that they would get a paying TV deal to add to the pot here. The game gave them time for this but it never came. When challenged Perez said that he could get a massive NATV deal but Superleague had to have "at least 5-6 north american teams in it to provide the content for such an NATV deal

Given the state of the player pool and TWP's clear intention not to bother with development by sacking the NA players they had, 5-6 North American clubs could only enter Superleague at the expense of 5-6 clubs here. In short a Transatlantic League was impossible because such a set up would have lost us the SKY deal once we got down to only 8 English clubs.

The bottom line is we all crave expansion wether the casual speccy or visitor to this site, wether Martyn Sadler or Danny Lockwood, or Ian Lenegan and his colleagues........We all want to see a club bring us new professional players and new media money......but TWP failed to be that club...... and we should not go on pretending they are, and trolling away on websites like Silent H is doing or writing pieces in the RL press Editorials about how wonderful TWP are without a scrap of credible evidence.

In a few hours TWP may get their first win in SL - if so watch that be hailed as a great success for the expansion of RL in the Northern Hemisphere. And I thought we were an honest game Snowy. Thanks for your input.