dont remember any Leeds fans clainming trophies this year, most at best where thinking 6-7 place, yes we did not think we would be in this mess, but nobody was "giving it large" that's just in your head. I hope Leeds get relegated just so the whole game collapses in on itself and the game of RL is finally laid to rest, because that's all it deserves.

Can just picture it now if Leeds lose to London this Sunday with Agar’s post match interview...”So Richard where do you think you lost that game”....”Well some Leeds fan on the internet commented on St Helens at the start of the week and it had a massive effect on the squad”

The clue is "Most Successful Club in Superleague Era", by my count Saints on 19, Leeds on 14, Wigan on 10 I,ve excluded the World Club Challenge not that it makes any difference.

Yes, it really is cherry picking to describe the team with the most Super League titles as the most successful of the Super League era. How stupid of me.

I'm not sure what other criteria you could employ if 'being champions more times than anyone else' is described as cherry picking.

Saint Helens are the most successful team of the Super League era, because losing grand finals is exactly the same as winning them. Is that what I'm supposed to say?

You're implying that all trophies are equal. They are not.

yep Super league titles override everything else then World club champions then Challenge cup a distant 3rd then LLs. Doubt any side at the start of the year anymore thinks, lets go all out and win the cup. The grand final is wher its at and that's all that matters.

No implication at all, but surely trophies are attributes of success no matter what their value. I see the replies are opening up the can of cherry pickers.

The Challenge Cup is a far greater and more prestigious trophy than the glorified friendly that is the WCC.

No, I think you should revisit your post and do some editing to remove the word ERA and perhaps replace it with the word "competition" then we can all be on the same page.

If we were talking about soccer and someone asked which club was the most successful of the Premier League era you'd look up the number of titles won and say Man Utd. You wouldn't look up FA Cups or League Cups, UEFA Cups or Champions Leagues. It's titles. It's always about titles. That's what people mean.

Whatever pedantry you want to engage in to feel better about Saints is fine, but please don't make out that you're doing anything other than reaching here.

The definition of "era" is time span, in rugby league terms thats from 1996 to 2019, in terms of the premier league I think thats relevant for 1996 and 1997. I will leave it there and agree to disagree.

Well as a Saints fan I certainly wouldn't swap what Leeds have won for what we've won in the SL era simply because we've won more trophies overall and that's a fact. Trying to devalue the Challenge Cup suits their argument.

Perhaps that's down to their 'Golden Generation' taking until 2014 to finally win one?

Yes we've been a bit quiet on the silverware front over the last decade but we've still remained competitive and not had the embarrassment of middle 8s campaigns or the kind of relegation battle Leeds are having right now.

I'm not saying you're being disingenuous, but when you lost five in a row, four of them against us, you wouldn't swap any of your Challenge Cups or League Leaders Shields for one or two of those?

Also, I'm not devaluing the Challenge Cup. I think the Challenge Cup is awesome and winning it is great and should be celebrated. All I'm saying is that when you talk about 'the most successful side of X era' then as a rule you're talking about league titles. I think that's common across sport.

And yes, it's all a bit rubbish at the minute, but when you've enjoyed all those rainbows you might have to put up with a bit of rain. We'll be back. Eventually.

Leeds have won more SL titles than anyone. No arguments there. But when people say SL or Summer era they mean all trophies as far as I'm concerned rather just than SL titles.

CBA reading 20 pages of ego massaging from anyone so who won this d***-measuring contest?