No, Damo, that's not the "biggest flaw". It's not a "flaw" at all. Barba gets plaudits for his consistently outstanding performances in 2012, regardless of winning competitions or not. Sinfield had a pretty average season and 3 good performances at the end of the year and somehow wins the Golden Boot.

FYI - the majority of Golden Boot winners have not been champions that year.


Nothing Kevin Sinfield could do would convince me he's the best player in the world. But he's not alone in that regard, most players in the world won't get close to being the best.


An eleven point margin is neither here nor there. And I didn't say losing the CC final was a deciding factor, but it was yet another loss for Leeds in 2012.


What have Wigan fans got to do with it? A Sinfield reel would contain lots of kicking, a few decent passes, a few tries, a few tackles, a lot of team talks and getting knocked out. Best in the world??

I'm in awe of what Harry Edgar achieved but the times of taking a fanzine from the bedroom to the world are long gone and things have changed whenever we like it or not. Personally I think that somethings have got worse and somethings have got better.

An example of something that has got better is rugby league probably employs more people than it ever has done in the games long history. But has this come at some expense?

An example of where it's got worse in rugby league is they hasn't been another Harry Edgar type person to rise from a website (the modern day bedroom?) to become globally acknowledged. RLFANS despite being the most popular rugby website on the internet has had a long history of stigmatization by professionals involved with the sport. Thankfully this stigma is slowly going away but it's still there in different guises. These professionals have their own agendas that at times it probably is at the expense of the game.

However whenever the golden boot votes were rigged or not I still believe that Kevin Sinfield deserves to win this award. I'm not going to repeat what I've already wrote in previous comments supporting Kevin Sinfield but I will get into a debate with you about other stuff.

I think it's a farce that Sadler refuses to publish the details of the voting panel. It's unfair that someone can nominate someone for a prestigious award and remain anonymous for it. One of the things that our sport is built on is character and Sadler wouldn't be able to sell his publications if it wasn't for the named characters who play rugby league. In future are players just going to be called number one and number two because of so called vitriolic criticism through social media?

I don't like where this anonymous agenda could lead. It just makes everything less transparent, more suspect and more dodgy when they don't need to be.

I agree you can't compare the Super League play offs to the State of Origin in the context you was comparing the two competitions. However I didn't do that - I compared the Super League Grand Final, WCC & Challenge Cup final to the State of Origin. Yes the State of Origin is more elite to these three finals but it's the best we can go with for now. Regardless of whatever side of the world Smith or Sinfield played on both would have had good years. We're never going to agree on this argument no matter how many angles we look at it from so it might be best to agree to disagree on this one.

Finally it's ridiculous that the internationals Sinfield was involved in with England was bough up as a reason why Kevin Sinfield deserved the award because it was IMO the poorest point of a pick of many good points that also make Kevin Sinfield IMO the best player of 2012.

Good background to Open Rugby / RLWorld here Damo en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rugby_League_World Also here www.rugbyleagueoralhistory.co.uk ... ue-gazette Edgar is still around with his wife publishing a RL nostalgia mag www.rugbyleaguejournal.net/index.html Sad really that much of the progressive aspects of RL came from 1982 to 1990. Peter Deakin for example was an outstanding visionary www.rugbyleagueoralhistory.co.uk ... ue-gazette Even the hated by many Maurice Lindsay was instrumental in resurrecting the WCC that many Wigan haters now enjoy due to his efforts.

Good background to Open Rugby / RLWorld here Damo en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rugby_League_World Also here www.rugbyleagueoralhistory.co.uk ... ue-gazette Edgar is still around with his wife publishing a RL nostalgia mag www.rugbyleaguejournal.net/index.html Sad really that much of the progressive aspects of RL came from 1982 to 1990. Peter Deakin for example was an outstanding visionary www.rugbyleagueoralhistory.co.uk ... ue-gazette Even the hated by many Maurice Lindsay was instrumental in resurrecting the WCC that many Wigan haters now enjoy due to his efforts.

Resort to hyperbole if you must but you know I only went back to the year Sinfield became captain of Leeds. This was in response to you strenghtening your argument with the quotes I mentioned previously and which you once again repeat below.


Yes Leeds dominance of winning the Super League isn't continious but winning 5 out of 6 in a 14 team salary cap competition I think holds up just as well as 7 from 7 in a 2 team competition were NSW can't exactly buy their way back into winning it.


Hardly credible when Melbourne only had to play the 3rd and 4th placed teams once during the regular season, i'm sure Leeds' win/loss record would've looked healthier too if they didn't have to travel away to Catalans or have Saints visiting.

- Melbourne won 20 games last year and won 1 trophy. Leeds won 25 games last year and won 2 trophies and made it to the final of another.

- Leeds' 2012 Regular Season record P27 W16 L11
Cameron Smith's State of Origin record P27 W17 L10

- As for knowing more about the voting, does it matter? Anything they reveal will be dismissed by those who don't agree with Sinfield winning it just like Darren Lockyer and Sam Burgess endorsements of Sinfield were as media-friendly brain-washing properganda.

I have absolutely no problem with people who like to present a different view, it's the style that some use that leads me to form my previously mentioned opinion. Constructive criticism is fine, clearly we have many problems within the sport but I also don't think everything to do with SL is rubbish as some seem to do.

Too many times in the last few years i've had friends or work colleagues who aren't really into RL who ask me about the latest events in Super League and when I try to be positive i'm met with a shocked look and a response of ''oh I know this other guy whose into his rugby too and he's just been saying how rubbish everything is nowadays''. Now i'm not suggesting people should be saying everything in the garden is rosy but then again not all is doom and gloom either.

It leads back to then the argument on 'what is rugby doing to attract new fans'. And people go on about market campaigns and big sponsorship deals, and yes the RFL have hardly excelled at this but neither have a lot of fans in one of the best forms of attracting new fans.....word of mouth from those who follow it. It comes to something when Eddie and Stevo get slated for trying to big-up the sport on air, it seems some would genuinely prefer them to come on air and say ''Welcome to Super League......it's sh#t, change the channel!''

Ok so what same thing does Andy Farrell and Anthony Minichiello have that Sinfield doesnt? What does Stacey Jones and Hugh McGahan have that Sinfield doesnt and how do we measure that?

Yes, at the defining points of the season Leeds were better and as such had a successful season as opposed to a decent mid-season run. THey had the better season.

Did you really need someone to explain to you that not everyone makes the same contribution to that success.
Winning competitions isnt a requirement, nobody said it was. Winning things is however a pretty clear and obvious indicator of who is the 'best'. Its the reason why we have competitions, in fact its the entire reason the game exists at a professional level.

If the Golden Boot is 'achieving recognition' and not a contribution towards the success of the team then i cant think of a player I have ever met who would want to win it. Most would find it quite insulting that someone thought they had set out to 'achieve recognition' and that their success is judged by that and not their contribution not the success of the team. In a team sport, you 'achieve recognition' by winning.

Printer do you honestly think achievements in SL are comparable with achievements in the NRL/Origin ?

IMO it is akin to comparing the National Amateur League with SL

It wasn't Kevin Sinfields fault he was given the award. In some respects he was exploited / taken advantage of by a League Publications agenda. The GB was set up by Edgar who was / is a man of integrity. Are Sadler / Drake on a par with him or very different 'animals'? Perhaps when the plug was pulled on the award the decision was the right one.

If you are going to have such an award then do it properly. Football / ballon d'or shows how awards should be done and be meaningful.

Farrell carried an iffy Wigan team through the entire season and was excellent in the Tri-Nations (you know, a decent international challenge). He won Man of Steel and Golden Boot that year so he was doing something right. Minichiello was the pretty much the Slater of his day. He won the Harry Sunderland, Dally M full-back and Golden Boot that year so he was doing something right.


No, if you place their results from Feb-Nov alongside some other teams, they had a pretty average season. What they did do was have a better play-off and grand final run. A 'season' runs from February to October. They were not the best team during that period. They were the best team in the last few weeks.


So why mentioned winning competitions when Golden Boot winners haven't generally been champions during the year of their award?


Actually, YOU said "The aim of an RL player is to win competitions...Anything else is irrelevant."

That may be true, but we're talking about the Golden Boot. Let me put this clearly. The winner of the Golden Boot has not played for the champion side in the majority of years. That would seem to indicate that, contrary to what you've written, winning competitions is NOT an indicator of who is the best player in the world.


I didn't say they had "set out to achieve recognition". You're making things up.

But in pretty much all cases, the winners have led from the front, displaying outstanding skills, try scoring abiltiies, toughness, etc. And if you think even the most team-motivated player wouldn't love to win it, you're being very naive. Winning an individual award isn't be at the expense of your team as you seem to be hinting at.

Yes, it's a team sport, but the Golden Boot is an individual award.


Again, I didn't say that. Making things up again. But take a look at previous winners. Those skills are there in abundance and would appear to be fairly important.

The best player in the world would have a fair mix of all those assets. Sinfield falls short on pretty much all of the physical attributes and isn't the most skillful player by some distance. And he's never really impressed at international level (but he's not alone in that regard).


No-one said he didn't contribute or wasn't key to Leeds' success. Quite the opposite, in fact. But that's a long way from being 'the best in the world'.

Having outstanding leadership and kicking skills does not make you the best individual player in the world.


There you go again, making things up. I didn't say he didn't deserve recognition. In fact, if you paid attention you'd see I acknowledge his role and state very clearly he is deserving of the award - but as a lifetime achievement award. He's great at what he does, he's simply not "the best player in the world", and watching [isome [/iLeeds fans desperately trying to claim he is, is hilarious.

Go and watch "Best NRL Tries 2012" and tell me Kevin Sinfield putting up bombs, kicking conversions and giving team talks is a better individual player than Barba.

I find this thread really depressing it's so predictably partisan.

True KS is not the most gifted player ever to pick up the boot, but that's not the only criteria. KS is not my fave player but he has been a very good player for over 10 years in the second best RUGBY competition on the planet. A model pro and reliable and tough, he does what it says on the tin.

For all the above I do think he is a worthy winner - well done that man.

Now move on and enjoy your sport and take pride in a British winner and cut out all this pedantry nonsense.

Wow, this thread still going. People still trying to tell us that Sinfield is the best player in the world