FORUMS > The Virtual Terrace > Justin Carney |
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Player Coach | 3679 | No Team Selected |
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38546.gif What immortal hand or eye,
Dare frame thy fearful symmetry?:38546.gif |
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| Quote: Seth "What a bizarre statement.'"
I like the bit about the animals.
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International Star | 18 | No Team Selected |
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Aug 2010 | 14 years | |
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Jun 2022 | Feb 2017 | LINK |
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| Quote: EL CAMO "Would depend a lot on what he's on at Cas.'"
Somebody else's wife?
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International Board Member | 14970 | No Team Selected |
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Jun 2002 | 22 years | |
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Nov 2021 | Nov 2021 | LINK |
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| Worse than the Terry & Bridge situation. Plus Terry was the club captain.
Denny Solomona seemed to do pretty well in Carney's absence.
Cas have to get rid of Carney or they might as well write off next season as well as this. It's a shame because he's a cracking player. But if he has so little respect for his teammates then Cas need to get rid either now or at the end of the season.
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Player Coach | 136 | No Team Selected |
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May 2009 | 16 years | |
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Mar 2016 | Mar 2016 | LINK |
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| Quote: Biff Tannen "Salford is the obvious get out here if he is to stay in SL (should Cas get rid of course)'"
Assuming Salford are in SL next Season!!!
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International Star | 11412 | No Team Selected |
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Sep 2010 | 14 years | |
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Feb 2021 | Jul 2019 | LINK |
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"The Golden Generation finally has its Golden Fleece! They have Wembley Cup Final winners medals to add to their collection."
23/08/2014: |
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| Quote: number 6 "like the terry/bridge incident, bridge left. the club will see which player is more important to them once the sympathy has subsided and keep that player i reckon, carney is too valuble a player for cas to lose
sounds harsh on the innocent victim but cas wont want any other sl club having carney'"
Bridge had left the club and was playing for Man City when the story broke so it didn't leave Chelsea with an awkward decision.
Bridge however ruled himself out of selection for England whilst Terry was still playing for the national side, which again saved management and coaches from making the tough decision.
Like one of the other posters said, you have to consider the rest of the dressing room. Those in the squad who are closest to Massey will be pretty pee'd off if their close mate is sent packing because of what Carney did. It would probably tear the dressing room apart keeping Carney there. He needs to be sold/released whatever.
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Player Coach | 15521 | |
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Mar 2010 | 15 years | |
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May 2020 | May 2020 | LINK |
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50722_1319672516.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_50722.jpg |
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| Quote: OzWelsh "The fact is we are animals, we are a part of the animal kingdom.'"
How did that line work out for you? Mine wasn't buying it at all.
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Player Coach | 447 | |
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Jul 2006 | 18 years | |
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Jan 2024 | Sep 2015 | LINK |
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| Quote: John Gilbert Reds "If Salford and Cas were to do any swap deal, I imagine it would include BJB rather than Chase or Theo (who could well be a free agent by the end of September).'"
As a Cas fan, Carney for:
BJB - I'd be distraught unless it involved a large fee and/or another player.
Chase - Quality wise, absolutely - best player I've seen in a Cas shirt, but any questions over impact on dressing room then definitely not (we've been overachieving on the back of spirit and work ethic and nothing, including the brilliance of Carney or Chase should jeopardise that).
Fages - definitely. I'm not personally his greatest admirer but would be an ideal replacement for Finn and I feel he'd work well with Gale.
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Club Coach | 3098 | No Team Selected |
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Jan 2005 | 20 years | |
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| Is she tidy??
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Player Coach | 2833 | No Team Selected |
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Apr 2009 | 16 years | |
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| Quote: jools "Swap for fages?'"
There seems to be a big misunderstanding by some people of the Fages situation. He has resigned from Salford and is therefore no longer their employee - he is not theirs to swap! If a club wants to sign Fages they can do so without having to have any discussions with Salford.
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International Star | 7182 | No Team Selected |
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Dec 2014 | 10 years | |
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No reserves,but resilience,persistence and determination are omnipotent.: |
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| Quote: nottinghamtiger "There seems to be a big misunderstanding by some people of the Fages situation. He has resigned from Salford and is therefore no longer their employee - he is not theirs to swap! If a club wants to sign Fages they can do so without having to have any discussions with Salford.'"
You were totally incorrect about visas and the Chase signing.
Fages resigned last month and is contracted to Salford until November 2016.
If discussions with Salford were not required I would have thought he would have signed elsewhere by now.
rlPress Storyrl
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Player Coach | 2833 | No Team Selected |
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Apr 2009 | 16 years | |
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| Quote: Angelic Cynic "You were totally incorrect about visas and the Chase signing.
Fages resigned last month and is contracted to Salford until November 2016.
If discussions with Salford were not required I would have thought he would have signed elsewhere by now.
rlPress Storyrl'"
Not totally incorrect, if you care to read the thread(s) back. I said, and stand by the fact, that there was a strong possibility of Chase not obtaining a Visa with the regulations in place at the time. However, I always said that these things were unpredictable and as it turned out he was given the Visa. Things like this are usually on the human decision of a government official, and there are contradictory decisions all the time as it's a decision often made by balancing different factors.
However, I do know contracts if employment. A resignation ends a contract of employment, so it's impossible for Fages to resign and be contracted until 2016. Technically, any contract has to have a reasonable legal resignation period in which an employee can give notice to end the contract of employment. You simply cannot force an employee to remain with an organisation for an unreasonable length of time. For example, those with permanent contracts cannot be forced to work for their employer until retirement. Unless a set period is specified in a contract, notice period is usually 6 months (although statutory notice is much shorter).
In Fages' case, it seems he has resigned on the grounds of constructive unfair dismissal, in that he is claiming the club breach his contract first and this allowed him to resign without notice. The thing with this is that an employee is entitled to resign on the grounds of constructive unfair dismissal and it is then down to the employer to take legal action if they think this is unjust and the employee has resigned without just cause. As a general rule, employees (particularly former employees) have the legal advantage over employers in most cases! The employer can only claim any actual financial loss, and it would be very difficult to prove that losing Fages as an employee has directly cost them financially. Even if they did do this, the cost of taking such action is likely to be far higher than any costs recovered. The action can also only be taken against the former employee and not any future employer of that person, so Salford could not legally take any action against any club who sign Fages.
I imagine the reason he hasn't signed elsewhere yet is that most clubs won't want to pay him during the off-season for the benefit of a small number of games in 2015.
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Player Coach | 1828 | No Team Selected |
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34692.jpg :34692.jpg |
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| Apparently some are saying the baby that Mrs Massey has had is Carney's.When the midwife tackled it (the birth) the baby got up and started fighting
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41106.jpg You come at the king - You better not miss.
It ain't what you takin', it's who you takin' from, ya feel me? How you expect to run with the wolves come night when you spend all day sparring with the puppies?:41106.jpg |
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| Quote: nottinghamtiger "However, I do know contracts if employment. A resignation ends a contract of employment, so it's impossible for Fages to resign and be contracted until 2016. Technically, any contract has to have a reasonable legal resignation period in which an employee can give notice to end the contract of employment. You simply cannot force an employee to remain with an organisation for an unreasonable length of time. For example, those with permanent contracts cannot be forced to work for their employer until retirement. Unless a set period is specified in a contract, notice period is usually 6 months (although statutory notice is much shorter). '"
Are you Iestyn Harris' agent?
With pro players theres not just the matter of their employment contract but also their player registration. The RFL will have to have a tribunal to determine the dispute on that and until then Farges can't join another club.
On your line of logic surely no sports team would ever need to pay a transfer fee.
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It's not my line of logic but simple employment law. I seriously doubt the RFL would have the balls to refuse to register him elsewhere as they would be at risk of a 'restraint of trade' accusation.
Yes, sportsmen can give notice as in any other field of employment. Usually this would be 6 months (but of course in this case Fages is claiming that Salford were the first to breach the contract so he could resign without notice). The most recent I can think of was Ally McCoist, who gave his notice to end his contract as manager at Rangers even though his contract ran for a number of years. It's just not frequent.
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31007_1580947500.jpg EVENTUALLY, WE'LL WIN SOMETHING, ,MAYBE, IF I'M STILL ALIVE THEN:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_31007.jpg |
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| Quote: nottinghamtiger "
Yes, Fages can resign. That is a different issue from the rules around registration with a professional body. For instance, there are rules about clubs approaching players prior to certain dates. That is equally a restraint of trade but it is permitted due to the overriding principles established by the professional body. Fages can resign and not be forced to play for Salford, and not be paid. Whether the RFL registers him with a different club is a matter for the RFL and their rules.
You are merging two issues: the ability of an individual to escape a contract and the regulations of a professional body.
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