Brown over Widdop? Get off that crack you drug-crazed fiends. The was won in defence. They shut down our attack and we couldn't slow down their's.

Why move a 6 in Widdop to 7 just to accommodate another 6 who is not as good? That's almost ridiculous as moving Tomkins to centre just to accommodate Hardaker.

There is no difference between 6&7 in some/most teams, one on the left, one on the right. Brown is the only creative HB available, certainly as a classic SO. He made twice the metres of Smith despite being in a far less competitive team. Smith is a poor man's Deacon without the kicking skills.

Who is going to provide us with our kicking game if Smith isn't in the team? Certainly not Brown, who has more mistakes in him than either of the current pair. If he was Tommy Martyn then perhaps I could agree but he isn't. He's a poor man's Nigel Wright.

Travesty of injuries.

Had everything other than luck.

I'v said this before, at junior level too many clubs use ' feeder clubs ' pushing all the best young talent to 1 place, you create a situation where young HB s dont need to develop because they already have the best FB, the biggest forwards and the fastest backs

Perfect example of that is St George, with Widdop and Benji Marshal, they do it to great effect too

To answer the OP I'm perfectly happy with Widdop and Smith, there is lots to come from these two, I don't think we need to find anyone better, they just need time to play together

Had a belting girlfriend.

Seriously though, Nigel should be down in the annals as the last great GB half-back, he was unplayable at his best.

Ive never been a Smith fan

However he did a good job - Undoubtedly Widdop is our best half

I think it was the best half back performance for some time for England - Yes not perfect but a vast improvement, Not having to rely on a LF playing at 6 anymore is certainly a great starter

I thought both performances were good (Not sure about the Samoa game, either we were under par or they were better than expected).

Against Oz', we had two crucial chances to win the game, with breaks of 3 against 2, sadly on both occasions the ball carrier held on for too long. If just once the ball had been passed wide the game would've been won and thats without any "fingertip-gate" discussion.

Against the Kiwis, if Ryan Hall doesn't lose his grip, we win, sadly he did, so we lose.

It's been ages since I last felt we were about to win, well ages against Oz', only last year against the Kiwis to be fair, but I'm sure you all know what I mean.

Developing halfbacks has clearly been a problem for decades. Goulding and Sean Long were the last class halfbacks to come out of england, and in Long's case he was far too variable to trouble the opposition regularly.

We seem to either develop running halfbacks who can't pass or, more rarely Deaccon/Smith types who pass and kick but can't run. I'd say with Smith at least could get better - he needs to run the ball far more, its that simple. He doesn't need to be lightning quick - too many people are obsessed with half backs having pace at the expense of skill (Johns wasn't quick, Lewis wasn't, latter-year Lockyer wasn't, Cronk never was).

Its about is making the defence unsure as to what you're going to do whilst having control yourself - Thurston makes even the best defence stand on their heels because he can run, kick or pass long or short near to the line, and they know it. If you know the halfback will pass its a hell of a lot easier to defend against.

Brown kicks just as much as Smith. Douglas Bader would have been as much use as Smith as a kicker (or runner) for 2.5 games. At least Brown gives you creativity, support, a try threat & unpredictability.

Douglas Bader retired from international RL in September.

Fair point.

As a youngster playing RL I was lucky enough to have plenty of outstanding players as inspiration in the likes of Gregory, Edwards, Hanley etc.

All we can do is hope the kids these days have access to Premier sports and see the likes of Thurston as something to aspire to, the same way that big lads look at the likes of Graham and Burgess as the type of forward they want to be like. As a kid my fave players that I wanted to play like were Nikau and Gavin Miller, so you have a point in regards to how young kids form their ideals in regards to playing.