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Quote: RoyBoy29 "From a club and business angle, what would you rather have???

500 Leigh fans,

or zero Toulouse fans. and maybe at a push 10 Catalan or Toronto fans'"


Not forgetting the usual 7 London Broncos fans.....what a joke of a club, eh CALL ME GOD ! c020.gif c020.gif c020.gif

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The reality is we currently have 14 English clubs capable of a place in SL, 2 French and 1 Canadian. Now get Avignon in the Mix with New Jersey/NYC and we almost have the 2 x 10 Structure we need to grow into and from.
The uneducated Chorley rabble are holding our sport back

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Quote: maurice "The reality is we currently have 14 English clubs capable of a place in SL, 2 French and 1 Canadian. Now get Avignon in the Mix with New Jersey/NYC and we almost have the 2 x 10 Structure we need to grow into and from.
The uneducated Chorley rabble are holding our sport back'"



SL 1 & SL 2 sound like a good idea, until you think a little deeper.

Unless you have 2 conferences say, East & West, having SL1 and SL2 is effectively a re branding of SL and The Championship.
You would actually be cutting the top flight by 2 teams, not too wise really.

You could go for a much larger league of 16/18 clubs but just play each other once, either home or away , depending how the fixtures are drawn up and then have some kind of split/play off system.

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Quote: maurice "The reality is we currently have 14 English clubs capable of a place in SL, 2 French and 1 Canadian. Now get Avignon in the Mix with New Jersey/NYC and we almost have the 2 x 10 Structure we need to grow into and from.
The uneducated Chorley rabble are holding our sport back'"


who is 'holding it back' ? Us Chorley fans have NO say in the matter..... c015.gif

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Quote: Budgiezilla "Not forgetting the usual 7 London Broncos fans.....what a joke of a club, eh CALL ME GOD !
Why are London Broncos 'a joke of a club?'. They have produced many quality players who have gone on to greater success with other SL clubs, despite having to cope with moving stadium every few years due to factors beyond their control. They enjoyed decent crowds for a good many of their years, even if the numbers have been down in more recent seasons. Their small band of supporters is passionate and don't deserve to be patronised for standing by their club. Finally, if your team faced a 400 mile round-trip for every away game I'm pretty sure that the number of fans folllowing them away would be severely tested.

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Quote: wrencat1873 "SL 1 & SL 2 sound like a good idea, until you think a little deeper.

Unless you have 2 conferences say, East & West, having SL1 and SL2 is effectively a re branding of SL and The Championship.
You would actually be cutting the top flight by 2 teams, not too wise really.

You could go for a much larger league of 16/18 clubs but just play each other once, either home or away , depending how the fixtures are drawn up and then have some kind of split/play off system.'"


Promotion and relegation between them would be essential, as would minimum player salary spend. The fundamental difference between what we have now is that all 20 would be FT and forced to spend a minimum of say £1.5m in tier 2 and £2m in tier 1 - that would make the gap too much for most championship clubs surviving on 1200 gates or less without a rich owner.
Licences would be 3 years and the objective would be to expand not stay still, allowing the clear platform for cashed up expansion or heartlands clubs to realise ambition whilst protecting a sound business from going PT in the Championships
Basically if Batley can show they have the ability and infrastructure to finance their ambition then the sport should encourage that, same with Montreal or Detroit

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Quote: Call Me God "Hmmm....

500 Leigh fans delivers at best 10k in revenue.....for one game where Leigh are the visitors. A superleague club costs somewhere between 4.5 million and 5 million a year to run......so your 10k is .00000022% of the turnover of the club AT BEST.
Catalans gives SKY 13+ TV games for a pittance and is icing on their cake when it comes to the cash they give the game....money by the way that is 36% of the clubs turnover AT WORST........
.....so to recap, you'd bin 36% of the incomeof a club for .00000022% of the income because of "away fans"
£10,000 is actually 0.22% of £4.5m. So, your statement around .000000022% is 100,000,000% wrong. I get what you're saying, but on the same basis, a crowd of 10,000 would only equate to 4.4% of the required income as well.

Looked at another way, 500 additional away fans means an additional 5% revenue from spectators, or closer to 10% if you're Salford, Hudderfield, Widnes or Wakefield.

It's easy to manipulate statistics...

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Quote: Asgardian13 "Why are London Broncos 'a joke of a club?'. They have produced many quality players who have gone on to greater success with other SL clubs, despite having to cope with moving stadium every few years due to factors beyond their control. They enjoyed decent crowds for a good many of their years, even if the numbers have been down in more recent seasons. Their small band of supporters is passionate and don't deserve to be patronised for standing by their club. Finally, if your team faced a 400 mile round-trip for every away game I'm pretty sure that the number of fans folllowing them away would be severely tested.'"


It was just to annoy 'Call Me God'. icon_biggrin.gif

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Quote: maurice "Promotion and relegation between them would be essential, as would minimum player salary spend. The fundamental difference between what we have now is that all 20 would be FT and forced to spend a minimum of say £1.5m in tier 2 and £2m in tier 1 - that would make the gap too much for most championship clubs surviving on 1200 gates or less without a rich owner.
Licences would be 3 years and the objective would be to expand not stay still, allowing the clear platform for cashed up expansion or heartlands clubs to realise ambition whilst protecting a sound business from going PT in the Championships
Basically if Batley can show they have the ability and infrastructure to finance their ambition then the sport should encourage that, same with Montreal or Detroit'"


Therefore, you want to water down the quality of the top flight (SL1) to "prop up" the second tier (SL2) d040.gif
What you want could be easily achieved now, just by spreading the Sky monies between more clubs.

The key is to find a way of getting more cash out of the sports primary sponsor and therein lies the million dollar question ??

As I said previously SL 1 & SL 2 cannot work, unless they are conferences, with some kind of play off system towards the end of the season.
RL is just so far behind Union or NRL that diluting the resources further, would just increase the "brain drain" either to Aus or Union.

The bald fact is that RL in it's present form, RL is just not attractive enough to generate the cash that it thinks it needs.
Perhaps we could expand into N. America, that might get a few more quid icon_surprised.gifops:

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Conferences are the way to grow the number of pro clubs. SL1/SL2 is just another name for what we have now. Clubs will be doing their damnedest to avoid playing in SL2 and the best players will naturally gravitate to SL1.

Have 1 top flight division and add to the league as and when clubs (both traditional and new) feel and can demonstrate they are ready. Have a lead in period so they can prepare. They key is the conferences have equal standing.

Fag packet structure - Start with 16 teams now, split into 2 conferences, home and away fixtures. Top and bottom half of each join up and form the second half of the season playing other once. Top half play for title, bottom half for a shield type trophy. Play off system at the end to suit.

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Could we not have 2 leagues playing side by side rather than league 1 and 2.

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Quote: Budgiezilla "It was just to annoy 'Call Me God'. Apologies: too subtle for me, 'twould appear. I have a 'soft spot' for the Broncos as I was living in London when they started in 1981, allowing me a rugby league fix once a fortnight after eight years with only the odd trip home to Warrington to see the sport live.

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Quote: wire-quin "Could we not have 2 leagues playing side by side rather than league 1 and 2.'"


You mean conferences ?

Unless there is additional funding or, SL clubs reduce their share of the Sky revenue OR, The Championship negotiate a seperate TV deal, things will have to stay pretty much as they are.
IF there was some major additional TV deal from N. America, which, as things stand, would be unlikely, why are we changing the League format again, so soon after the current system was implemented.
There seems to be only one potential answer, which would be to include Toronto and/or Toulouse and IF this is the reason, there seems little sense in the change, without protecting them as one or both could be relegated in their first season.
Btw, I'm not saying that this would be right, only that it seems the only reason to have a major change.

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JESUS WEPT :WALL: HOW MANY TIMES????? £20 a ticket and £15 on beer and merchandise.....so an away fan is worth £35. At best, 1,000 is the average away support split across 11 rounds and I am being really generous here, so Toronto, replacing say Wakefield will cost a SL club £35,000. The minimum turnover of a SL club is £4,000,000 so Toronto instead of Widnes is worth less than 1% of a SL clubs turnover. There are many valid reasons for and against expansion into America, but "AWAY FANS" isn't one of them. :BEAT::d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_76030.jpg



Quote: Budgiezilla "Roy, you are wasting your time. Expansion lovers are all over the VT (Not that many of them I know, but they care about how our game can allegedly improve, rather than their own club 0.0000002% income v 36% income........I'd let a few more than Blackpool rot for the good of the game.
Quote: Budgiezilla "Not forgetting the usual 7 London Broncos fans.....what a joke of a club, eh CALL ME GOD ! It's illegal to carry more than 5 passengers in a Hackney Carriage so you must be referring to a play off match icon_wink.gif

London Broncos are a tarnished brand that should never see the light of SL again IMHO.........the reasons are many and complex....far too complex for you as it would involve venturing beyond the range of your bus-pass!

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Quote: Call Me God "0.0000002% income v 36% income........I'd let a few more than Blackpool rot for the good of the game.
It's illegal to carry more than 5 passengers in a Hackney Carriage so you must be referring to a play off match
Your stats are flawed - read my earlier post.

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