FORUMS > The Virtual Terrace > the new structure finalized. |
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| Quote: SmokeyTA "That depends on where and how and why you set the standard for them to reach. If not finishing bottom is the only standard to reach then yes they failed to meet that standard. But is that standard the right standard to drive RL forward to growth and prosperity.
In the cases you mention, not finishing bottom wasn’t the standard set for those clubs. Other things relating to more long terms drivers of growth like facilities and youth development were.
It is worth noting that Crusaders have been the only club to finish bottom twice (and lets remember it was the most ambitious of our franchises), and all the clubs to finish bottom also got to the play-offs or are there now.
2 seasons ago cas finished joint bottom with Widnes, only points difference above them, do you think we would have seen Adam Milner, Daz Clarke, Holmes, Massey etc get the games they did under the threat of relegation?'"
Excellent post and he very reason that we went away from P/R.
With the exception of Leeds, Saints and Wigan, survival will supersede junior development in all other clubs.
There did need to be some reward for success in the second tier and base on playing performance, Fev deserve a shot at the "big time" but, they will never become a "big" club due to the size of the local population (unless Cas and Wakefield ceased to exist)
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| The one thing that concerns me is that they haven't decided yet about whether there will still be Dual Registration under the new system.
Surely not.
Think of the impracticality of it and the opportunity of even further abuse of the system.
You could easily end up with 2 DR paired teams in the "Qualifying 8" and a player having to continually look down at his shirt to see who he is playing for that day. It leaves the game wide open to corruption and manipulation of the worst kind. The SL team will decide who is available for loan depending on who the Championship team is playing that day and whether it is beneficial to the SL club for them to win or lose.
The whole thing would become completely farcical and, in my opinion. would be almost tantamount to match-fixing. It would certainly invite suspicion and controversy if nothing else.
On top of all this, the whole point of the new system and the "Qualification League" is to prove a club's suitability and readiness for SL. This would hardly be a true reflection if the said club did it with a load of borrowed players.
No. It simply has to go.
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| Agreed.
To avoid the problems set out above, the acceptable options, in order of preference, are:
1. Super League clubs required to have a team in a Super League under 21's league. With agreement as to how many "over age" players are allowed to be in the 17 for any match. If Championship clubs can afford it, why not Super League clubs? Then no dual registration at all.
2. Super League clubs can only have their dual registered players play for a Championship 1 (ie the new League 1) club NOT Championship clubs. Each Super League club can have no more than 3 of its players play on dual reg for any one club in a season. eg If, over a season, a Super League club sends out 12 players to play on dual reg, it would have to spread them across at least 4 different Championship 1 clubs.
3. The Championship Under 20's league to be changed to Under 21's, with agreement as to how many "over age" players are allowed to be in the 17 for any match. Then Super League dual registered players can only play for a Championship club's under 21 side.
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| The DR issues is quite simple to solve, any players DR agreement ends for that season if their parent club ends in the same "8" as their DR club.
I'd be surprised if the situation ever (or more than rarely) arises anyway.
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| Quote: Him "The DR issues is quite simple to solve, any players DR agreement ends for that season if their parent club ends in the same "8" as their DR club.
I'd be surprised if the situation ever (or more than rarely) arises anyway.'"
There should be no possibility of the situation arising. How often does the RFL legislate after the event (usually depending upon which club is involved and to suit it's current agenda).
End Dual Registration now!
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| Quote: Fax Machine "There should be no possibility of the situation arising. How often does the RFL legislate after the event (usually depending upon which club is involved and to suit it's current agenda).
End Dual Registration now!'"
But the problem is solved if what I said is implemented. Either that or the parent club be forced to either recall the player (therefore ending the DR for that season) or make him available for all the other clubs' games.
But it won't happen often anyway.
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| Quote: Him "But the problem is solved if what I said is implemented. '"
No it isn't.
If you want to maintain the integrity of any competition, you can't allow the possibility of (in the case of RL) of a Super League club having the on-going ability to manipulate the outcome of a competition in which it (or its direct competitors) may be playing in the same season.
Unfortunately, FM, the RFL has said DR will continue in 2015 "in some form". So, I'll put this forward as the best form of DR (if we have to have it)Super League clubs can only have their dual registered players play for a Championship 1 (ie new 'League 1') club and NOT Championship clubs. Each Super League club can have no more than 3 of its players play on dual reg for any one club in a season. eg If, over a season, a Super League club sends out 12 players to play on dual reg, it would have to spread them across at least 4 different Championship 1 clubs.
[/i
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| Quote: Mr Churchill "No it isn't.
If you want to maintain the integrity of any competition, you can't allow the possibility of (in the case of RL) of a Super League club having the on-going ability to manipulate the outcome of a competition in which it (or its direct competitors) may be playing in the same season.
Unfortunately, FM, the RFL has said DR will continue in 2015 "in some form". So, I'll put this forward as the best form of DR (if we have to have it)Super League clubs can only have their dual registered players play for a Championship 1 (ie new 'League 1') club and NOT Championship clubs. Each Super League club can have no more than 3 of its players play on dual reg for any one club in a season. eg If, over a season, a Super League club sends out 12 players to play on dual reg, it would have to spread them across at least 4 different Championship 1 clubs.
[/i'"
If my suggestion was implemented, how can a SL side manipulate the competition?
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| A Championship team could load its squad full of DR players and earn a place in the middle eight. Then all of a sudden the DR players disappear and they are getting beat 80-0 for 7 games.
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| What's the difference between DR and loan. Surely it just needs to be tightened up a bit.
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| Quote: bewareshadows "What's the difference between DR and loan. Surely it just needs to be tightened up a bit.'"
Yep. A couple of tweaks to the rules and it's sorted.
Like I said I'd be suprised if there's regularly an issue anyway as I can't imagine most of the top Championship clubs being a DR partner to a bottom SL club, if at all.
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| Quote: SmokeyTA "Then why do you think the Championships only matter if the prize is promotion to Super League?'"
Why don't we just have a six team super league with all teams below used as feeders.they could use the lower teams for dual reg and loans to ensure their players get game time.
I give up sometimes!!!
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| I still think when the split happens it will be a very tough ask for any championship club to gain promotion at then end of next season.The two teams relegated receive £780,000 funding,the four teams who drop down into the middle eight will have £1.85m funding and the two championship sides to make up the eight will receive £500,000 and £450,000 respectively.
As I say a tough ask and a little unbalanced
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| Quote: Nat (Rugby_Aholic) "A Championship team could load its squad full of DR players and earn a place in the middle eight. Then all of a sudden the DR players disappear and they are getting beat 80-0 for 7 games.'"
A Championship team can't load a team full of DR players, they can use 5 at most, almost certainly reduced next season.
And just how good do you think these young/fringe Superleague players are? York and Hunslet used it last year and got relegated.
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| Swinton have used it again this year and got relegated. Workington however and Doncaster have definitely used it to their advantage using DR full internationals along with some very good youngsters like Murphy and Tierney from Wigan playing at Worky (Charnley too) and Hull FCs Ben Crookes and Jacob(?) Miller most notably playing at Donny. It shouldn't just be reduced it should be dropped.
Question :- Championship clubs can afford to run U20s, why can't SL clubs?
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