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Quote: frankbooth64 "I wonder if anyone's ever thought of paying a player extra via their wife/girlfriend/brother-in-law/mate and not telling the RFL about it? Maybe even through a different company?'"

If it's a company not connected to the club then that would be fine. But the moment that company is contacted by the club/owner then it is connected to the club and that money would count on the cap.

The not telling the RFL bit gets very sticky from a fraud point of view, same as Melbourne with the dual contracts. I'm not sure many clubs would be willing to take that risk, especially with RL being a small world in which people talk.

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Quote: SmokeyTA "seems a fairly over-written statement.

Surely "we couldnt afford it so didnt want others to have it" would have acheived the same thing?'"


'strengthen the underbelly of our club' is strange phrasing. 'Foundations' would be better.

un·der·bel·ly
noun \ˈən-dər-ˌbe-lē\

: the bottom part of an object or an animal's body

: an area that is easy to attack or criticize

: a part of society, an organization, etc., that is hidden and usually unpleasant

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Quote: Mild Rover "Looking at the rules a while back, I noticed that it explicitly says that you can't de-register players to beat the overseas quota and non-fed rules. Without a RFL discretionary exemption, naturally.
It doesn't say anything equivalent in the salary cap rules. It doesn't say you [ican[/i, but my impression is that it is maybe possible to carousel fed-trained players. It was [isuggested[/i that Hull KR might have to do that to meet the club-trained minimum at one point. So basically, injured and well-paid unused players wouldn't count - unless you want them to, so you can tell the fans the club is spending to the cap.'"

As soon as a player plays 1 game for the club whatever he is paid for that year is counted on the cap. Otherwise, like you say, you'd have Sam Burgess for rounds 1-14 and then SBW for Rounds 15-27!

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Quote: Him "If it's a company not connected to the club then that would be fine. But the moment that company is contacted by the club/owner then it is connected to the club and that money would count on the cap.

The not telling the RFL bit gets very sticky from a fraud point of view, same as Melbourne with the dual contracts. I'm not sure many clubs would be willing to take that risk, especially with RL being a small world in which people talk.'"

You can't possibly think it realistic that an RFL demand to see the books of Caddick Construction or SJM would ever be met with anything other than a howl of laughter

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Quote: Mild Rover "'strengthen the underbelly of our club' is strange phrasing. 'Foundations' would be better.

un·der·bel·ly
noun \ˈən-dər-ˌbe-lē\


I always like a Cas press release. I wonder who does their PR for them.

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Quote: SmokeyTA "You can't possibly think it realistic that an RFL demand to see the books of Caddick Construction or SJM would ever be met with anything other than a howl of laughter'"


Auditors can though.

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Quote: Magic Superbeetle "Auditors can though.'"

no they can't. The Auditors wouldnt even get inside the building. These are companies turning over hundreds of millions of pounds, with hundreds if not thousands of employees, some of them are publicly listed.

They arent opening their books to an audit because Blake Solly asked them to.

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Quote: Wire Yed "Have a salary cap that reflects the club's individually. Have it as a percentage of income rather than a unilateral fixed amount.
Then the likes of Wigan, Hull FC and Leeds would be able to spend more, then the more successful you are at raising money the more you're able to spend but at the same time you can't spend wildly and bankrupt yourselves. Coupled with a marquee allowance the game could attract more money.'"


Like Financial (Anything But) Fair Play, that would just lead to a 'rich get richer, poor get poorer' scenario.

I think the Golden Ticket idea isn't particularly very good but I do like the marquee player system. It doesn't even necessarily mean having to bring in a superstar. Wigan probably could have kept Tomkins and gone out to get another very good player if the system was in place.

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Quote: Him "As soon as a player plays 1 game for the club whatever he is paid for that year is counted on the cap. Otherwise, like you say, you'd have Sam Burgess for rounds 1-14 and then SBW for Rounds 15-27!'"



I'm not sure that is the case, since we moved to the live cap system. There was an unusually intelligent and non-adversarial discussion between Rovers and Hull fans about this on their board a while ago.
What I took from it wasregistered[/i earners.
As so often, the rules are a little opaque. So it is only really a theory. But for me it is one of the more rational (partial)explanations for how two clubs, both 'spending the up to cap', can end up with squads of quite different quality.

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Quote: pie.warrior "nothing wrong with the good Dr arranging a weekly poker school with 4 different players each time and lo and behold his dummy unconnected stand in fall guy off the street loses £100k each time and the players win £25k each time....this of course happens at a private table in a bonafide casino.....'"



Many years ago I was in a Casino watching Roulette and actually saw an East Asian Grocer place £5000 on Black and £5,000 on Red. Red won and he then cashed all chips and asked for a cheque so he could declare as Gambling Winnings. Very clever eh?

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Quote: Early Bath "Many years ago I was in a Casino watching Roulette and actually saw an East Asian Grocer place £5000 on Black and £5,000 on Red. Red won and he then cashed all chips and asked for a cheque so he could declare as Gambling Winnings. Very clever eh?'"


Until it comes out green icon_wink.gif

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Quote: Adamjk "Like Financial (Anything But) Fair Play, that would just lead to a 'rich get richer, poor get poorer' scenario.

I think the Golden Ticket idea isn't particularly very good but I do like the marquee player system. It doesn't even necessarily mean having to bring in a superstar. Wigan probably could have kept Tomkins and gone out to get another very good player if the system was in place.'"


So is it the fault of Leeds, Wigan and Warrington that have people who know what they're doing and how to generate a profit as well as marketing the team and bringing in big sponsors?

Warrington secured EMIRATES ffs, if the rich get richer it's only because they work bloody hard at it, incentivise clubs to get off their backside, the more they bring in the more they can put out, but at the end of the day everyone is working at X% so it's fair as long as you can generate income.

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Quote: Mild Rover "I'm not sure that is the case, since we moved to the live cap system. There was an unusually intelligent and non-adversarial discussion between Rovers and Hull fans about this on their board a while ago.
What I took from it wasregistered[/i earners.
As so often, the rules are a little opaque. So it is only really a theory. But for me it is one of the more rational (partial)explanations for how two clubs, both 'spending the up to cap', can end up with squads of quite different quality.'"

From what I understand, the top 25 players salary cap values are assessed as soon as the contract is lodged with the RFL and that counts on the clubs salary cap. The players beyond the top 25 only count when they play a game. But de-registering a player wouldn't affect the clubs salary cap. The only way it would give the club more cap space is by the player moving clubs.
But like you say the rules are a bit vague on it.

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Quote: SmokeyTA "You can't possibly think it realistic that an RFL demand to see the books of Caddick Construction or SJM would ever be met with anything other than a howl of laughter'"

I never said it would. But if Leeds were paying a player through Caddick Construction and NOT declaring that to the RFL then they'd be committing fraud, ala Melbourne with the dual contracts. I don't think any club here has the appetite to take on that kind of risk. All it would need is one disgruntled player or employee to whistleblow.

As I said, RL is a small world.

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Quote: Him "I never said it would. But if Leeds were paying a player through Caddick Construction and NOT declaring that to the RFL then they'd be committing fraud, ala Melbourne with the dual contracts. I don't think any club here has the appetite to take on that kind of risk. All it would need is one disgruntled player or employee to whistleblow.

As I said, RL is a small world.'"

They wouldnt be committing fraud. They may be breaking the salary cap, but they arent committing a legal offence.

and besides, a disgruntled player can make all the allegations he wants, they need proof and i would highly doubt the RFL fancied litigation with Caddick construction, or could in any way, shape or form have any legal strength to punish the Leeds club for the actions of Caddick Construction.

Caddick Construction are free to pay whoever they want, whatever they want, for whatever they want. Mrs Player X is free to earn whatever she wants, from whoever she wants. The RFL have no control over either of them, and cannot realistically hope to oblige the player, or the club to declare a relationship between a different business and a different person.

regardless, even on a practical leve, how many companies do you think someone like Caddick or Lenegan hold shares in? What if Caddick owns shares in WH smiths and Mrs Player X gets a job stacking shelves there, are the RFL policing that? Are the RFL expecting Leeds Rhinos to declare a relationship on the cap there? no of course not, it would none of Leeds Rhinos business and they couldnt hope to force the player to divluge that information to them.

204 posts in 15 pages 
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