| FORUMS > The Virtual Terrace > Expansion ...a sensible approach? |
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"...the biggest boor, the most opinionated pompous bigot that frequents these
boards and he is NOT to be taken at all seriously. ":187.jpg |
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| Quote: Barnacle Bill "So are you saying it takes a bit longer than 4 or 5 years then? ![]()
I think there's some double-think going on which suits the prejudices of those who are ultimately opposed to any expansion because they fear that it threatens the place of smaller "traditional" clubs. There are people on these boards who were implacable in their opposition to Catalans, for example (just as they were to Crusaders, and as they are to Quins), who argued that Catalans needed to be "built up from the bottom" and start in the lower divisions and not be "parachuted in" too soon etc etc. All the objections raised to Crusaders, Quins and indeed any attempt to create a new club. Yet now that Catalans have been a success, those same people claim that actually Les Cats were really a heartlands club who were developed in a bottom-up way. Yet that's clearly not true. Catalans combine some of the things most hated by anti-expansionists : they were the result of a merger of established clubs, solely to obtain a place in the top flight. They never played in the lower leagues. They never won promotion. The idea that they're based in some sort of league heartland equivalent to humberside or West Yorkshire is based on a misconception about the state of RL in France - the RL "heartland" is almost entirely overlapped by the RU "heartland", and everywhere within it, RL is the junior partner.
In many ways, Crusaders followed a much more traditionalist-friendly method of entering SL - a lower league campaign, building local roots, and then applying for a license alongside every other club (Catalans were given special treatment without a formal licensing process). To suggest that they represent the failure of top-down franchising compared to the success of Les Cats bottom-up development is just plain wrong.
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| Quote: Roy Haggerty "I think there's some double-think going on which suits the prejudices of those who are ultimately opposed to any expansion because they fear that it threatens the place of smaller "traditional" clubs. There are people on these boards who were implacable in their opposition to Catalans, for example (just as they were to Crusaders, and as they are to Quins), who argued that Catalans needed to be "built up from the bottom" and start in the lower divisions and not be "parachuted in" too soon etc etc. All the objections raised to Crusaders, Quins and indeed any attempt to create a new club. Yet now that Catalans have been a success, those same people claim that actually Les Cats were really a heartlands club who were developed in a bottom-up way. Yet that's clearly not true. Catalans combine some of the things most hated by anti-expansionists They never played in the lower leagues. They never won promotion. The idea that they're based in some sort of league heartland equivalent to humberside or West Yorkshire is based on a misconception about the state of RL in France - the RL "heartland" is almost entirely overlapped by the RU "heartland", and everywhere within it, RL is the junior partner.
In many ways, Crusaders followed a much more traditionalist-friendly method of entering SL - a lower league campaign, building local roots, and then applying for a license alongside every other club (Catalans were given special treatment without a formal licensing process). To suggest that they represent the failure of top-down franchising compared to the success of Les Cats bottom-up development is just plain wrong.'"
Yes, they did.
Union Treiziste Catalane played in the Elite League before joining SUper League. Let us at least get some facts right. |
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25057_1281800333.jpeg
www.hullrockers.co.uk:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_25057.jpeg |
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| Quote: Roy Haggerty "I think there's some double-think going on which suits the prejudices of those who are ultimately opposed to any expansion because they fear that it threatens the place of smaller "traditional" clubs. There are people on these boards who were implacable in their opposition to Catalans, for example (just as they were to Crusaders, and as they are to Quins), who argued that Catalans needed to be "built up from the bottom" and start in the lower divisions and not be "parachuted in" too soon etc etc. All the objections raised to Crusaders, Quins and indeed any attempt to create a new club. Yet now that Catalans have been a success, those same people claim that actually Les Cats were really a heartlands club who were developed in a bottom-up way. Yet that's clearly not true. Catalans combine some of the things most hated by anti-expansionists
The problems the Crusaders face are a direct result of the RFL rushing them into SL ill prepared, without serious commitment from the money man and then leaving them to flounder (as evidenced by the deportation debacle and movement of the Magic weekend to Scotland).
If expansion of this type is to work it needs real, long term commitment from all parties.
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9005.jpg
kcab sfrawdder
Luck is a combination of preparation and opportunity
Just to avoid confusion Starbug is the username of Steven Pike
SOMEBODY SAID that it couldn’t be done
But he with a chuckle replied
That “maybe it couldn’t,” but he would be one
Who wouldn’t say so till he’d tried.
So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin
On his face. If he worried he hid it.
He started to sing as he tackled the thing
That couldn’t be done, and he did it!:9005.jpg |
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| Quote: Barnacle Bill "The problems the Crusaders face are a direct result of the RFL rushing them into SL ill prepared, without serious commitment from the money man and then leaving them to flounder (as evidenced by the deportation debacle and movement of the Magic weekend to Scotland).
If expansion of this type is to work it needs real, long term commitment from all parties.'"
Maybe a largeish cash bond deposited to the RFL would have ' focussed ' the mind of an investor Bill , what do you reckon ? |
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187.jpg
[img:2penstlp]http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/5994/saints7sk.gif[/img:2penstlp]
"...the biggest boor, the most opinionated pompous bigot that frequents these
boards and he is NOT to be taken at all seriously. ":187.jpg |
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| Quote: Hedgehog King "Yes, they did.
Union Treiziste Catalane played in the Elite League before joining SUper League. Let us at least get some facts right.'"
I think it's a slightly pedantic point, but I was referring to the lower leagues of pro rugby in this country. |
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9005.jpg
kcab sfrawdder
Luck is a combination of preparation and opportunity
Just to avoid confusion Starbug is the username of Steven Pike
SOMEBODY SAID that it couldn’t be done
But he with a chuckle replied
That “maybe it couldn’t,” but he would be one
Who wouldn’t say so till he’d tried.
So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin
On his face. If he worried he hid it.
He started to sing as he tackled the thing
That couldn’t be done, and he did it!:9005.jpg |
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| Quote: Roy Haggerty "I think it's a slightly pedantic point, but I was referring to the lower leagues of pro rugby in this country.'"
2 years playing to different rules hardly constitutes a realistic lower league campaign , anybody that had any contact with the Celtic crusaders knew deep down they were nowhere near ready for SL
The issue now is how does the sport save the development done in South Wales ? , moving to Wrexham is not the answer |
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25057_1281800333.jpeg
www.hullrockers.co.uk:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_25057.jpeg |
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| Quote: Starbug "Maybe a largeish cash bond deposited to the RFL would have ' focussed ' the mind of an investor Bill , what do you reckon ?'"
You wouldn't be wanting to wind up Smokey would you now?  |
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| Quote: pyeman "It supported a multim illion pound tv deal, had 35 teams from 3 nations, had a nationaly televised cup competition with 95 teams from 4 nations and drew over a hundred thousand people in each week?
i would be impressed if that were true duck ![]()
firstly cause you were the person who didnt even know areas other than sydney where RL was dominant and 2ndly because someone like you using the expansion clubs LC & CC to back his argument is very funny
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| Quote: bowes "You're the one with a double standard, you don't compare like for like, to you a heartland team gaving their own ground that isn't very nice should be compared as a failure with Crusaders not having a fixed home ground and a temporary financial set back at a heartland club should be compared to Paris ceasing to exist'"
every post of yours just sticks to the conservative heartland script.
are you running for president or something of the anti expansion league |
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| Quote: Hedgehog King "You are trolling dally.
You were trying to suggest that clubs in the late 19th century / early 20th century were remiss for not developing the game outside their immediate area.
This was an era when almost nobody owned a car and there was little public transport. Lots of people had never even seen the sea and yet they ought to have been walking huge distances to a town they had never been to watch a game they'd probably never heard of....'"
im not trolling.
how come other sports clubs were able to do it?
how come wigan and leeds were able to do it?
did they have access to a time machine |
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| Quote: Hedgehog King "Look what the ARU did with the ARC.
That's why.
Rugby league is a minority sport in England. You cannot possibly compare it with AFL, the Australian national sport.'"
its not the national sport but they are certainly trying to make it so.
the way they back their sport 100% is a lesson for all of us, but more so you guys
you need expansion to succeed more than us to make the sport a whole lot bigger
youve got a whole nation of france which could give you critical mass |
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| Quote: bowes "I was referring to Dally's suggestion that the RFL should fund expansion with the logical conclusion.
I have no idea how much extra money (if any) the RFL give the Crusaders though they have had an RFL task force running the club since July when they hit financial troubles. The debts would suggest they haven't been bailed out as such
so what the AFL has been doing in nsw and queensland is the wrong way to go.
and forcing more clubs down peoples throats who dont care wont work?
it shows that top down expansion can work if its well funded. that was my original comment.
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I think Super League will become an European compétition to face H Cup notoriety and NL1 will become the english first grade comp. I imagine Toulouse it's the last team playing into it. If they are ready and they join SL in 2 years, all other non english who wants enter in SL will have to ask direct integration like perhaps Paris or an other Great Britain team. Sorry for my poor english. you know my first language is catalan and french.
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| Quote: Odemwingie "Thats what aussie fans don't understand. We are a tiny sport in this country. Our biggest clubs average over 14,000. In football they can fill 75,000 seats every week. There are clubs in the 3rd tier bigger than our biggest. RU can fill huge stadiums all over GB for internationals in Wales and Scotland and Ireland as well as England. Cricket have the most in demand tickets when the ashes come around. Tennis sold over 250,000 seats for the ATP world tour this week.
We have a great product but how can you sell it to people who are happy with their own?'"
so leeds dont play RL any more? last time they played the sport they averaged more than 14,000. if they didnt play at a dump they could easily get double that.
if you think RL should stay a minority sport for the next century good for you
i think its up to the RFL to try and grow the game a lot. |
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| Quote: Redchemic "No.
I am not talking about the past. There was never any real will in the past as has been found out by those who saw how difficult it is to make a club from nothing too quickly.
I'm talking about what happens now in the present and the future.
We are in a newer media led age now with more wealthy people compared to maybe even 10 - 15 years ago. In theory it should be easier to build a club up to Super League level as long as there is the backing of the people in the area and wealthy benefactors with sound business plans.
It will never be easy and there are massive obstacles in the way but only strength of will and sustainable growth will make successes.'"
so even when you are shown up you still stick with the argument.
brilliant
the question asked was an excellent one and your silly answer only highlighted it. |
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