FORUMS > The Virtual Terrace > England's Spine |
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| Quote: wrencat1873 "He certainly has the ability but, I agree that he doesnt hit a 9/10 performance often enough.
Mind you, our spine wont scare anyone.
Tomkins is the only X factor player in there but, Daz Clark has to play either at 9 or be coming off the bench.
Even though he's getting to the end of his career, Roby, if he is still going strong at the end of the season will be nailed on.
Houghton is good but also getting on a bit and Hodgson has never offered the flair thet either Roby or Clark can offer.
Our halves, whoever we pick wont scare anyone. In fact our backs look ordinary.
We have relied on having a quality pack for the last few years but, even our forwards are looking weaker than they were at the last world cup.
It has to be said that under Bennett we have gone backwards, a poor side and no new blood to reinvigorate the side.
A semi final exit is the best that we can hope for.'"
Is Tomkins still X-factor? Genuine question.
For me, Connor and Williams are both X-factor players, wherever they're positioned.
Gale and Williams might give a balanced half pairing between x-factor and steady eddy running the show.
Initially I thought we had good enough wingers, and were just lacking for centres, but then I see some of the 7ft monstrosities/rapid as hell speedsters that are in the NRL and start to worry about our wingers too.....
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| Quote: MillennialRhino "Is Tomkins still X-factor? Genuine question.
For me, Connor and Williams are both X-factor players, wherever they're positioned.
Gale and Williams might give a balanced half pairing between x-factor and steady eddy running the show.
Initially I thought we had good enough wingers, and were just lacking for centres, but then I see some of the 7ft monstrosities/rapid as hell speedsters that are in the NRL and start to worry about our wingers too.....'"
You certainly rate Williams way, way more then me, although I hope that you're right.
As for Gale, excellent at SL level but, as an international ??
Tomkins reads the game very, very well and it's a pity that he's played very little in the halves, which is the area that England is most lacking in quality.
As has been said, Connor does have some X factor about him but, he's just not consistent enough as an international half and his temperament is certainly questionable.
Whoever England play, the opposition will be all over him to see if they can get him to "bite".
It will be interesting to see how Wane goes and what style he wants England to play
The assumption is that it will be similar to Wigan but, hopefully, he has a plan b,c and d.
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| Quote: MillennialRhino "Connor is an x-factor player. I remember a match vs NZ where they really seemed to struggle with him. NZ have several x-factor players, and we have very few. And Aus are always going to do the boring/"make no mistakes" stuff better than us so we need to have some creativity come from somewhere. In general with recent Eng/GB performances, we did the arm wrestle well enough but could do with a little more in terms of creativity.'"
No he isn’t at all. One good game does not make him an “x factor player” at all. He’s nearly 27. Real X factor players do it from consistently from age 20 onwards.
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| Connor is a poor man's Leon Pryce
Hodgson wouldn't be anywhere near my squad,
I'd probably go with:
Tomkins
Williams
Gale
Roby. Clark on the bench.
We could definitely do with finding some young pivots! 3 of those are at least 32.
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| It’s just depressing when you see some of the names being banded about,
Lomax and Williams are the only actual English halfbacks with any class these days,.
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| Quote: MillennialRhino "Some possibles to get the juices flowing
Ludicrous statement. Clark has been consistently playing very well for about 5 years now. He's a fantastic player who would walk into any side in SL and most NRL teams.
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| Quote: Willzay "It’s just depressing when you see some of the names being banded about,
Lomax and Williams are the only actual English halfbacks with any class these days,.'"
And Lomax, good as he is, looks good because he plays for Saints.
He's not looked in the same class with an England shirt on and without the advantage of a decent pack, our halves are going to have their work cut out to perform well.
Space will be very limited and our best chances are going to come from kicks.
Having some speed at acting half will be critical, which is why I wouldn't have Houghton or Hodgson at 9.
Even Roby isn't as quick as he used to be but, his experience and reading of the game is worth half a yard of pace.
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| Well no one has mentioned Paul McShane, current Man of Steel.
Should he not be given a shot!?!?
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| Who do you think will be the next generation spine once all the 30yrs+ blokes go (e.g. tomkins/lomax/gale/roby/hodgson/mcshane/widdop)?
Guessing Williams will be in the picture for a while yet, but those others might not make another world cup.
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| Quote: MillennialRhino "Well no one has mentioned Paul McShane, current Man of Steel.
Should he not be given a shot!?!?'"
Good grief. He’s not fit to lace Clark’s boots.
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| Quote: Lord Tony Smith "Ludicrous statement. Clark has been consistently playing very well for about 5 years now. He's a fantastic player who would walk into any side in SL and most NRL teams.'"
Clark’s strength is capitalising on quick play the balls and running at retreating defenders. He wouldn’t get much of these opportunities in the NRL or at international level against Australia or NZ. He distribution isn’t all that. Very good SL level player, of which there is no doubt. But at international level there’s better options.
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| Connor gets a lot of unfair criticism from both Hull and SL fans, he played very well last year, once our pack starting playing well, there isn't many pivots who perform well when the pack is poor, he also played 6 alot with Sneyd and Shaul, neither has a good passing game, meaning he is the only creative player and tries to do too much himself. Playing with at FB with Reynolds should see his game improve massively. Plus been coached by one the best either SL FB's will help. Saying that he lacks a bit of pace to play FB internationally or in the NRL, so I'd have Tomkins there.
I think individually Tomkins, Lomax and Williams are are best three pivots, not sure they would work together though, without a controlling halfback. Probably only Sneyd and Gale are that type of player, but not sure either are good enough for this level.
Houghton is a solid SL hooker, not good enough these days for international rugby, Clarke, Mcshane and Hodgson are better hookers.
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| Quote: Dave K. "Connor gets a lot of unfair criticism from both Hull and SL fans, he played very well last year, once our pack starting playing well, there isn't many pivots who perform well when the pack is poor, he also played 6 alot with Sneyd and Shaul, neither has a good passing game, meaning he is the only creative player and tries to do too much himself. Playing with at FB with Reynolds should see his game improve massively. Plus been coached by one the best either SL FB's will help. Saying that he lacks a bit of pace to play FB internationally or in the NRL, so I'd have Tomkins there.
I think individually Tomkins, Lomax and Williams are are best three pivots, not sure they would work together though, without a controlling halfback. Probably only Sneyd and Gale are that type of player, but not sure either are good enough for this level.
Houghton is a solid SL hooker, not good enough these days for international rugby, Clarke, Mcshane and Hodgson are better hookers.'" reason why he gets a lot of criticism is his arrogance he comes over as childish, niggly and immature sometimes there is no doubt there is a talent lurking within him but he's hardly the savior for the british team is he
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| Quote: MillennialRhino "Who do you think will be the next generation spine once all the 30yrs+ blokes go (e.g. tomkins/lomax/gale/roby/hodgson/mcshane/widdop)?
Guessing Williams will be in the picture for a while yet, but those others might not make another world cup.'"
It's scary just how few British pivots there are in SL and when you try to find real quality, especially under 30, there are fewer still (understatement).
Every club is guilty of going for the overseas option in these positions and they have been following this route for 40 years.
Not since Gregory/Edwards have we had a quality English partnership and until we can fix this, we wont improve on 2nd place (or worse).
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| Quote: snowie "reason why he gets a lot of criticism is his arrogance he comes over as childish, niggly and immature sometimes there is no doubt there is a talent lurking within him but he's hardly the savior for the british team is he'"
Who said he was the saviour? He should certainly be in the squad, as he is a great player who can play anywhere in the backline. He has also played really well internationally, when others have failed to step up.
He certainly has a bit of an attitude on the pitch, but lots of top halfbacks have also, he is a character who wants to win but can get a bit excited.
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