What? Blow out scores and meaningless matches? This happens in the NRL every year.

I was just as interested in the top two clash last night as I have been with the relegation battle. You’re not a Leeds fan by chance are you?

Of course there are blow out scores and meaningless matches. There are under any system. P&R doesn’t guarantee no meaningless matches.

But the NRL is seen as both higher quality and more entertaining.
Just because the relegation battle is interesting doesn’t mean it’s good for the sport. It’s manifestly not.

As I said, RL fans consistently call for the sport to plan for the medium and long term. Yet insist on a system that ONLY allows for short term decision making and actively destabilises at least 20% of its professional clubs every season.

I am a Leeds fan. That’s pretty easy to check. A Leeds fan who has called for no P&R for at least 15 years. When Leeds were winning 3 in a row, winning the treble etc I was calling for no P&R. Leeds are probably the most well placed club to survive relegation.

I can only speak for myself but I'd have been utterly bored by the fare Leeds have served up this year, were it not for the threat of relegation. As it stands, the games matter. I can accept P&R may not be in the best interests of the game though I reckon it's one that was born to struggle whatever its systems, hence franchising might not achieve a right lot more.

Actually just about everything in this sentence is incorrect. P and R is good for sport as it forces teams to improve rather than coast along not winning anything every year but still getting paid.

What it is NOT good for, is business. Sport is NOT business, it is entertainment in all its forms. If you firmly believe that sport = business try going and standing outside M&S or Tesco and cheer them on. Sport needs financial support yes, but sport is sport and both ends of the table provide entertainment that Sky are prepared to pay money for.

Why doesn't the NRL have it? Because they never had it and therefore their sport is built around not having it - plus the lower league is financially supported better than over here and they are not treat like second class citizens. Thats back to the whole mentality thing I posted earlier.

I also put to you that supporting Leeds for so long, you've forgotten all that. That isn't meant to be a dig at you, but its a possible view of why you have this opinion.

As I seem to be talking more about basketball than RL here today, i should mention that I think that perception is based on people watching highlights, which are more likely to show scores than misses. A team having 50% successful shooting from the field (I dunno why they call it a field) is considered very good.

I was once watching season highlights of Icelandic handball (long story), and pointed out to my friend how ineffective the goalkeepers seemed to be - same sort of thing.

In many ways I enjoy watching games as discrete 80 minutes of entertainment. I’d happily watch a series of challenge matches, without worrying about there being a champion, I imagine.

I see the value of a league structure in providing an ongoing sporting narrative, as well as regular fixtures and income. I prefer having it, but could still enjoy games without it, I think.

sometimes, I think the ongoing narrative distracts us and takes us out of the moment. For example, in football, when they say ‘what does this fixture mean for these teams hopes of qualifying for the Champions League?’, i feel like they’re moving on before we’ve enjoyed what’s in front of us.

So I don’t really get the concept of a meaningless game or dead rubber. Surely each game itself should have meaning - its result matters in of itself. As much as sport matters at all.

But that seems to be a minority view and the sport needs to appeal to the broadest possible audience.

This one million percent.

You live beyond your means and this is what happened. I see nothing different to suggest Widnes would not be in a better position should we still be licensing. We need all the headlines we can get and relegation gets that. We are seeing teams starting up and entering in the bottom structure and growing nicely.

Him is obviously $h!tting himself coz Leeds are in the poop.

And it's Sinfield who has degraded your club.

Seems to me like relegation is used as a scapegoat for clubs making bad decisions.

Agreed.

If you want to discuss the subject do it like a grown up.

No it’s not actually. Well not solely. It’s a series of poor decisions that go back a few years involving both Hetherington and Sinfield and possibly McDermott added in with a bit of bad luck.

And that’s not the point.

Clubs make poor decisions all the time. That will never ever end. Poor decisions aren’t always poor decisions at the time they are made.

Stop making this all about Leeds. If London go down, have they made poor decisions? It would seem they’ve made some good ones.

As I said to Cokey. Clubs make bad decisions all the time. They will continue to do so.

When we have only 14 professional clubs can we afford a structure that actively helps reduce that number?

What bad decisions have London made this season?

The main point is that, by not having relegation or, more impotently, not having the opportunity of promotion, the game had royally screwed over all of the clubs outside of Super League AND prevented the future inclusion of the N. American wanabe's.

Therefore, after discussion among ALL of the clubs, "we" had the all new 3 x 8 structure, which, despite some of the drama that was created in the "middle 8", was an absolute disaster and thank goodness, this was consigned to history.

However, allowing clubs to gain promotion is the right thing for the game, albeit, it's massively painful and damaging for any relegated club, although, they do of course have the chance to regain their spot should they achieve promotion in future.

The game does need to re visit funding for the Championship, which has to be more evenly spread and let's be honest, this conversation is only taking place because Leeds are in danger.
If the bottom 34 clubs were KR, Trinity, Salford and Huddersfield, nobody (apart from their own fans) would give a toss whether they went down (or out of business).

Our sport is dominated by the needs and wishes of the top 4/.5 clubs and the rest have to fall in behind them, which as they are the main drivers for income / investment, is probably right.
Largely, they (including Leeds) have got what they wanted so, to start moaning that relegation is wrong is just a little sad.
Your argument is not one of principle, more to do with self preservation.