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JESUS WEPT :WALL: HOW MANY TIMES????? £20 a ticket and £15 on beer and merchandise.....so an away fan is worth £35. At best, 1,000 is the average away support split across 11 rounds and I am being really generous here, so Toronto, replacing say Wakefield will cost a SL club £35,000. The minimum turnover of a SL club is £4,000,000 so Toronto instead of Widnes is worth less than 1% of a SL clubs turnover. There are many valid reasons for and against expansion into America, but "AWAY FANS" isn't one of them. :BEAT::d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_76030.jpg



Quote: Egg Banjo "For some positive spin. The combined gate over the whole weekend was 8000 more than in 2018.'"

Again, that is remarkable given it involves London, but it is still papering over the cracks IMHO.
Without going down the usual route of slagging off Hudds, Wakey, Salford and London, the performances at Wigan and Leeds combined with the drop off in fans at those clubs is a real concern. Leeds would probably have been hoping that the new facilities would have seen a boost on gates, but compared to 2016 they are in freefall.
The 2017 season saw them average 15k and they were involved in 6 of the top attended 8 non magic weekend gates, with 4 of them at home.
2018 saw them only feature in 2 of the 8 top draw games and their average drop to 12,800 and that was with 2 games at Elland Road.....
2019 thus far and they feature in 5 of the top 10, but will lose 2 of those once Magic happens and an average of 12,600........
It's a downward trend that can't be ignored. Neither can Wigan.....these are our leading clubs and they are all seeing fewer through the gates.

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Is that not because they are playing poorly ? Leeds particularly. Also do the games really matter that much ? Last year Wigan were calling for wane to go before the end of the season because they were playing that bad, they won the grand final. I'm sure there were calls for McDermott to go in 2017, they won the grand final.

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A personal opinion but, Good Friday is a traditional thing, going to the game is what us older folk have always done on Good Friday, & there always seemed to be big crowds. Everyone gets hung up with soccer but they have always in the main attracted bigger crowds. What crowds did we get in the 1950’s 60’s 70’s & 80’s. It is my personal opinion (not backed with serious study) that the best way to improve gates is for each club to play every game every week on the same day, then it becomes a habit the only thing the fan needs is to know are we home or away. The attending could be made a lot easier I don’t remember having to get tickets in advance until recent years or being herded into away areas, just used to decide am I going & just turn up ( I except some games tickets are needed ) It used to be so simple quiet often a bunch of us would decide let’s go to a game today & we sometimes had the choice of three games in Hull.

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[quote:18jc6kzm]I wish everyone would read bramleyrhino's post two or three times just to get it through some thick skulls[/quote:18jc6kzm] [quote:18jc6kzm]Mr bramleyrhino speaks a lot of sense.[/quote:18jc6kzm] [quote="Jamie Jones-Buchanan":18jc6kzm]"I'd never forgive myself if a child of mine was born in Lancashire.[/quote:18jc6kzm]:1506.jpg



Quote: Call Me God "Again, that is remarkable given it involves London, but it is still papering over the cracks IMHO.
Without going down the usual route of slagging off Hudds, Wakey, Salford and London, the performances at Wigan and Leeds combined with the drop off in fans at those clubs is a real concern. Leeds would probably have been hoping that the new facilities would have seen a boost on gates, but compared to 2016 they are in freefall.
The 2017 season saw them average 15k and they were involved in 6 of the top attended 8 non magic weekend gates, with 4 of them at home.
2018 saw them only feature in 2 of the 8 top draw games and their average drop to 12,800 and that was with 2 games at Elland Road.....
2019 thus far and they feature in 5 of the top 10, but will lose 2 of those once Magic happens and an average of 12,600........
It's a downward trend that can't be ignored. Neither can Wigan.....these are our leading clubs and they are all seeing fewer through the gates.'"


I'd agree on the point about Leeds. Whilst I would argue that there is some [islight [/imitigation in that the club hasn't played any of the big draws at Headingley yet (aside from Castleford), it is much easier to get a ticket at Headingley for the better parts of the ground than it used to be.

The on-field performances will certainly be a factor in that, as would the way in which the club made something of a meal of selling seated season tickets this year, but it's concerning.

But I think it's also worth coming back to the point that Hetherington made during the whole "split" saga - that clubs were using the S8 structure and the RFL as a convenient excuse for their own poor commercial performance. Those clubs that were arguing that the S8s were negatively impacting their gates are still, in the main, showing declines in this new format. At what point does the self-reflection begin?

Don't get me wrong - I still think that the format needs to change, but not in the way I suspect many club chairmen would like it to. I want to see the format change to have fewer games, a greater emphasis on events and a greater emphasis on quality. Having clubs playing 29 games in a regular season, plus the play-offs and CC is just far too much.

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Quote: Call Me God "Again, that is remarkable given it involves London, but it is still papering over the cracks IMHO.
Without going down the usual route of slagging off Hudds, Wakey, Salford and London, the performances at Wigan and Leeds combined with the drop off in fans at those clubs is a real concern. Leeds would probably have been hoping that the new facilities would have seen a boost on gates, but compared to 2016 they are in freefall.
The 2017 season saw them average 15k and they were involved in 6 of the top attended 8 non magic weekend gates, with 4 of them at home.
2018 saw them only feature in 2 of the 8 top draw games and their average drop to 12,800 and that was with 2 games at Elland Road.....
2019 thus far and they feature in 5 of the top 10, but will lose 2 of those once Magic happens and an average of 12,600........
It's a downward trend that can't be ignored. Neither can Wigan.....these are our leading clubs and they are all seeing fewer through the gates.'"



Leeds attendances have dropped over the last two years mostly due to the stadium being a building site and having a vastly reduced capacity, yes poor form will have an impact, but from end of May stadium will be complete and attendeced will go back up somewhat. It will be easier to judge Leeds attendances next seaon when hopefully more competative and full use of stadium fot full season. That said the days of pushing nearly 18k average are gone for the time being, i would expect 15k next season or there abouts. Maybe less if the poor form does not turn around and build some momentum for next season.

Simply too many games loop fixtured which no fans wanted.the clubs have simply ly made fans pick and choose what games they want to go to rather than “i cannot wait for the next home game hate to miss it it”

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The Leigh and Wakefield fans mentality...... Say something negative about any other team than theirs - Its an opinion Say something negative about Leigh and Wakefield - TROLL:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_77270.jpg



Would the recent "success" of the football club have a bearing on Leeds attendances?

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Quote: Ruune Rebellion "Would the recent "success" of the football club have a bearing on Leeds attendances?'"

What success? Made the play offs in championship, whoa! Is that success

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[quote:18jc6kzm]I wish everyone would read bramleyrhino's post two or three times just to get it through some thick skulls[/quote:18jc6kzm] [quote:18jc6kzm]Mr bramleyrhino speaks a lot of sense.[/quote:18jc6kzm] [quote="Jamie Jones-Buchanan":18jc6kzm]"I'd never forgive myself if a child of mine was born in Lancashire.[/quote:18jc6kzm]:1506.jpg



Quote: Ruune Rebellion "Would the recent "success" of the football club have a bearing on Leeds attendances?'"


Hard to tell. Rhinos crowds were still around the 13-14k mark even when Leeds United were in the Champions League.

I honestly think that the clubs go after different audiences and attract a different crowd. There were stats around many years ago (a quick Google search hasn't come up trumps yet) that a very high proportion of LUFC's ticket holders come from non-LS postcodes, whereas the Rhinos released some survey data years ago that showed certain postcodes in North / West Leeds were where their support was strongest.

If Leeds United doing well affects Leeds Rhinos, it probably affects Wakefield and Castleford to a similar degree.

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The Leigh and Wakefield fans mentality...... Say something negative about any other team than theirs - Its an opinion Say something negative about Leigh and Wakefield - TROLL:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_77270.jpg



Quote: rollin thunder "What success? Made the play offs in championship, whoa! Is that success'"


In relation to where they have been in the past few seasons

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Quote: rollin thunder "What success? Made the play offs in championship, whoa! Is that success'"

There's a few big clubs in the championship so I'd call being in the play offs (at least) successful, a genuine point made by ruuBron I think.

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"The Golden Generation finally has its Golden Fleece! They have Wembley Cup Final winners medals to add to their collection." 23/08/2014:



Quote: Call Me God "Again, that is remarkable given it involves London, but it is still papering over the cracks IMHO.
Without going down the usual route of slagging off Hudds, Wakey, Salford and London, the performances at Wigan and Leeds combined with the drop off in fans at those clubs is a real concern. Leeds would probably have been hoping that the new facilities would have seen a boost on gates, but compared to 2016 they are in freefall.
The 2017 season saw them average 15k and they were involved in 6 of the top attended 8 non magic weekend gates, with 4 of them at home.
2018 saw them only feature in 2 of the 8 top draw games and their average drop to 12,800 and that was with 2 games at Elland Road.....
2019 thus far and they feature in 5 of the top 10, but will lose 2 of those once Magic happens and an average of 12,600........
It's a downward trend that can't be ignored. Neither can Wigan.....these are our leading clubs and they are all seeing fewer through the gates.'"


Quite pointless comparing Leeds’ attendance figures over the last few season considering last year half the ground was a building site and we’re still weeks away from one of the stands being completed. Hard to get 15k when not enough of your ground is open to make it possible.

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Quote: bramleyrhino "Hard to tell. Rhinos crowds were still around the 13-14k mark even when Leeds United were in the Champions League.

I honestly think that the clubs go after different audiences and attract a different crowd. There were stats around many years ago (a quick Google search hasn't come up trumps yet) that a very high proportion of LUFC's ticket holders come from non-LS postcodes, whereas the Rhinos released some survey data years ago that showed certain postcodes in North / West Leeds were where their support was strongest.

If Leeds United doing well affects Leeds Rhinos, it probably affects Wakefield and Castleford to a similar degree.'"



Leeds united are most definatley a regional side, very strong support base in 5 towns area (Cas Ponte Knottingley Fev Normy), Wakefield area as well is a Utd territory, York and Selby areas big utd territories. The rhinos hold their own in the city against utd, but utd attract support from a wider area, and don't have much opposition in west /north Yorks full stop, Huddersfield town and Bradford city, and there is also plenty of utd support in Bradford Bingley keighley area too.
Cannot compare the two.

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Get rid of the Easter Monday fixtures and play them at Magic Weekend so Magic isn’t an extra game that screws the table.

At Magic, if it’s one team’s home game one year, make it their away game the year after.

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JESUS WEPT :WALL: HOW MANY TIMES????? £20 a ticket and £15 on beer and merchandise.....so an away fan is worth £35. At best, 1,000 is the average away support split across 11 rounds and I am being really generous here, so Toronto, replacing say Wakefield will cost a SL club £35,000. The minimum turnover of a SL club is £4,000,000 so Toronto instead of Widnes is worth less than 1% of a SL clubs turnover. There are many valid reasons for and against expansion into America, but "AWAY FANS" isn't one of them. :BEAT::d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_76030.jpg



9,067 is the average for the 4 seasons since licencing was aborted. The number for the last 4 seasons of Licensing? 9,293.........the last 4 years before licensing 9.538....changing the format is akin to swapping deckchairs on the Titanic.....pointless.....the trend is downward.
EDIThttps://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/jan/07/super-league-clubs-transformed-adam-pearson-hullrl
15 Months ago we were informed that we would be transformed and competing with Union....they're on 14,300k a game at present, up on last year.....and up from the 11,800 they had in 2006/7.......when we had 9,026.
The reality is that without SKY TV our game would be dead and buried and SKY TV know this.......Toronto, NYC, outer mongolia.......it makes little difference. If the clubs don't start to prepare for a reduced funding model, then they will fail (once their benefactors die or lose interest).
And before some idiot claims Union include "event" games, why the f'ing hell don't we do the same? Bath v Bristol in a regular season game at Twickenham drew 10k more than our Challenge Cup final.......the issue isn't that they have a better product, but they certainly can polish a turd far better than we can our supposed diamond!

Next time you're at a game, glance to either side of you and count the nearest 20 fans in either direction......assess their age.......at London I'd suggest the average age is close to 50.........that's not healthy and as we lose the ability to attend, can't afford it on a pension or "shuffle this mortal" there is little planning to replace us......

...in 1974, Dungeons and Dragons was established. To date there are 14,000,000 registered table-top players globally.............personally I don't get it, but 14 friggin million people do........and we get a hard on for 1 weekends crowds and pretend that all in the garden is rosey......the only people we are fooling is ourselves!

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Quote: bramleyrhino "Hard to tell. Rhinos crowds were still around the 13-14k mark even when Leeds United were in the Champions League.

I honestly think that the clubs go after different audiences and attract a different crowd. There were stats around many years ago (a quick Google search hasn't come up trumps yet) that a very high proportion of LUFC's ticket holders come from non-LS postcodes, whereas the Rhinos released some survey data years ago that showed certain postcodes in North / West Leeds were where their support was strongest.

If Leeds United doing well affects Leeds Rhinos, it probably affects Wakefield and Castleford to a similar degree.'"

Yep I agree with that. I think the only time it does affect the Rhinos crowds is when both United and Rhinos play on the same day.

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