Probably a combination but one more factor that isn’t blameless are the fans. They can be very guilty of judging a youngster not good enough when he does make it into the first team when he’s still learning and far from the finished product, whether it be that players own fans or opposition fans. In 2014 Ashton Golding was player of the series against the Aussies and a youngster that actually got given a first team chance at a young age and has faced plenty of criticism from both Leeds and opposition fans because he wasn’t as good as Hardaker.

and what happens if a young player has a bad start is often the coach will panic because it is his job on the line if the team loses, so they go for more experienced players to step in. in the mind of a younger player he might think 'i'm not good enough'

Sometimes yes it’s the coach, sometimes not, sometimes the coach sticks with player even through all the criticism his selection of young player gets.

The Aussie mentality is when they lose, there has to be a reason - any reason.
They don’t mention that they have 10’s of thousands more players to choose from and even pick off the best Kiwis, put them through the school system which makes them eligible. Star To’a being a prime example.
They lost fair and square and England don’t deserve to have their achievements downplayed.

Not often the Aussie pack at this age group gets bullied, probably the reason they looked poor.

I disagree.

If you take any junior side in RL (or football, Union etc), you have 17 lads who are exceptional in their age group, the best in their year (or 2 years) but, the real test comes when they are no longer playing aginst lads their own age, where they may have physical advantage etc but, when they have to play against fully grown blokes.

No longrer is it good enough to be the best in your age group or best at your club, you have to be better than the rese or, at least as good or, show enough potential for someone to want to invest large sums of cash and time into helping you reachyour full potential.

Even with full backing and resources, not everyone picked to make it will actually get there.

Of course, every player needs an opportunity and then has to take it but, the reality is that it's damned hard to get to the top in any sport and just because a kid looks like a world beater at 18 or 21, doesnt mean that they will make it as a pro.

It would be interesting to see some stats of just how few youngsters make it form each junior national side.

Jean has been quite quiet on this thread where England beat Australia......plenty of posts slagging off the UK and UK clubs "imports" but not a dickie bird on here...
I saw the 2 country rep games and the first test.....Whist the Aussies were good against the somewhat disjointed defenses of Yorks and Lancs, England were very well drilled and therefore the aussies had little chance of the "open play" that saw them with the first 2 games

Where the Aussies will do better than us is brining the young talent from that game up to first grade. Most of their players won’t be rushed into first grade as they have a well funded age group set up as well as a proven reserve grade system. The two main reasons are they have a lot more cash in their game & a larger pool to pick from. Well done to our lads & their coaches. We probably get the same percentage of international youngsters going into the top grade but as I say they just have more & they won’t be pushed into action before they are ready.

Agree with you and that’s why we need reserves or has I used to say a A team then some of the young players would get ready for the first team

Agree with you and that’s why we need reserves or has I used to say a A team then some of the young players would get ready for the first team

That I think is correct but you hit our main problem head on. If an A team comp is run it will only draw players from championship clubs, who will then take their players from the amateur clubs & they are struggling to raise teams now as we simply don’t have the numbers of youngsters playing the game. Unlike the Aussies who’s culture is different sports of all types are supported & encouraged by society as a whole, also regarded as a career option by schools & parents.

They also go and play in the toyota cup which is a massive step up from academy. We dont have that luxury

Ahh the days when we had a reserve grade and we either always beating the Aussies or as closely matched to them as now.

In my opinion the Aussies hold 3 big advantages over us in the sport:
1 - fewer games played per season
2 - feeder clubs
3 - number of juniors playing

2 & 3 are big reasons in my opinion as to why they can get more juniors to make the step up.

but nobody ran academy sides back then they maybe had colts sides but nobody took them seriously, most players signed pro at 17-19 and went into A team rugby or straight to first team. i was fan of reserve A teams but some people have rose tinted glasses regarding it, loads of amateur and low league at best players used to make up the numbers, the Nrl reserves toyota cup is essentially championship and league one standard rugby.