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JESUS WEPT :WALL: HOW MANY TIMES????? £20 a ticket and £15 on beer and merchandise.....so an away fan is worth £35. At best, 1,000 is the average away support split across 11 rounds and I am being really generous here, so Toronto, replacing say Wakefield will cost a SL club £35,000. The minimum turnover of a SL club is £4,000,000 so Toronto instead of Widnes is worth less than 1% of a SL clubs turnover. There are many valid reasons for and against expansion into America, but "AWAY FANS" isn't one of them. :BEAT::d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_76030.jpg



Quote: fbstackafelt "then let the french teams organize their own league,'"
They have their own leagues...
Quote: fbstackafelt " if they can find enough quality teams'"
..oh the Irony. English RL can't even support 12 top flight sides with the likes of Widnes and Salford on the edge of the cliff and potentially being replaced by a French and Canadian side......and you reckon the french have an issue with quality players, when sides in the UK are rammed with average Aussies?

The attitude of the NIMBY brigade in RL is it's biggest threat. Adverse to change, unwilling to travel and distrusting of johnny foreigner.....Sir Oswald would be so proud icon_rolleyes.gif

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Quote: Call Me God "Then he should gather up his toys and f**k off and play elsewhere, freeing up £1,800,000 of perpetually wasted central funding that is spent each year on survival rather than growth!

The reality is that whether Toronto are good for the game or not, they are at least giving it a go and apparently doing it with a smile on their faces......meanwhile we are inundated with threads bemoaning expansion, generally started by fans of tin pot pit village clubs, teetering on the financial brink and watched by an ageing and shrinking fan base.'"


Unfair ' having a pop at lower teams fans who haven't even posted on this thread , doesn't help the cause Gutters

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JESUS WEPT :WALL: HOW MANY TIMES????? £20 a ticket and £15 on beer and merchandise.....so an away fan is worth £35. At best, 1,000 is the average away support split across 11 rounds and I am being really generous here, so Toronto, replacing say Wakefield will cost a SL club £35,000. The minimum turnover of a SL club is £4,000,000 so Toronto instead of Widnes is worth less than 1% of a SL clubs turnover. There are many valid reasons for and against expansion into America, but "AWAY FANS" isn't one of them. :BEAT::d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_76030.jpg



Quote: GUBRATS "Unfair ' having a pop at lower teams fans who haven't even posted on this thread , doesn't help the cause Gutters'"

The majority of threads on the front page of the VT are those started by fans of Wakey or Leigh or other smaller clubs bemoaning expansion, be that because of the red herring that is away fans not traveling or travelling to Toronto being an expense. Leigh look like they have gone boom or bust, wakefield are living hand to moth, Salford and Widnes are on the brink and I'm the bad guy?

I don't trust Toronto, but the arguments being used to "dis' them just hold no water, but what fans of clubs lie wakey will never admit is that without their annual £1,800,000 hand out, they'd be dead an buried and that's why they are scared of Toronto, not because they'd miss out on £10 of away fan ticket revenue

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Quote: Call Me God "They have their own leagues...
..oh the Irony. English RL can't even support 12 top flight sides with the likes of Widnes, Salford and Leeds on the edge of the cliff and potentially being replaced by a French and Canadian side......and you reckon the french have an issue with quality players, when sides in the UK are rammed with average Aussies?

The attitude of the NIMBY brigade in RL is it's biggest threat. Adverse to change, unwilling to travel and distrusting of johnny foreigner.....Sir Oswald would be so proud

c015.gif c015.gif c015.gif my remarks were aimed at the "The English based teams have it pretty damn nice compared to what the French clubs have to pay."comment, if they want to play then they have to pay icon_ass.gif

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Quote: Call Me God "The majority of threads on the front page of the VT are those started by fans of Wakey or Leigh or other smaller clubs bemoaning expansion, be that because of the red herring that is away fans not traveling or travelling to Toronto being an expense. Leigh look like they have gone boom or bust, wakefield are living hand to moth, Salford and Widnes are on the brink and I'm the bad guy?

I don't trust Toronto, but the arguments being used to "dis' them just hold no water, but what fans of clubs lie wakey will never admit is that without their annual £1,800,000 hand out, they'd be dead an buried and that's why they are scared of Toronto, not because they'd miss out on £10 of away fan ticket revenue'"


I find it better to reply to the post , not necessarily the poster , and certainly not to others who haven't even posted , as I said , it doesn't help the cause

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Quote: fbstackafelt "c015.gif
Nobody is disputing that the French clubs should not have to pay. What will be disputed is seeing any english club moan about travel costs to Toronto. Not when the French clubs just get on with things and pay a hell lot more.

Any club who cannot afford a single trip to Toronto shouldn't be in super league quite frankly.

Are we gonna see Salford get the buckets out next season asking for fans to fund the trip for the players and staff??

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JESUS WEPT :WALL: HOW MANY TIMES????? £20 a ticket and £15 on beer and merchandise.....so an away fan is worth £35. At best, 1,000 is the average away support split across 11 rounds and I am being really generous here, so Toronto, replacing say Wakefield will cost a SL club £35,000. The minimum turnover of a SL club is £4,000,000 so Toronto instead of Widnes is worth less than 1% of a SL clubs turnover. There are many valid reasons for and against expansion into America, but "AWAY FANS" isn't one of them. :BEAT::d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_76030.jpg



Quote: kobashi "Any club who cannot afford a single trip to Toronto shouldn't be in super league quite frankly.'"

This!

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Clubs seem to have no issues getting to Perpignan each year. Just another poop stirring thread from a bitter fan who hates the thought of 'his game' expanding....yawn
Jealousy keeps you imprisoned sunshine. Let it go.

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Hull KR the pride of East Hull.:



As other posters have said. It really shouldn't be an issue with regards SL.

However, if Toronto aren't promoted, and stay in the championship. Then it does become an issue.

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Quote: kobashi "

Any club who cannot afford a single trip to Toronto shouldn't be in super league quite frankly.

'"


Yet historically clubs have never had to fund flying 20+ staff to another continent with accommodation for a few days. Why should they be able to afford such a significant expense?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was on the understanding (that at least a few years ago and maybe even now) the RFL funded British clubs' flights to Catalans.

I have no objection to clubs setting up in other countries. What I do object to is the loss of a domestic league. If we want an international competition (do we) then make a Champions League style competition or expand the World Club Challenge. Don't deny me and other genuine fans the opportunity to see their team home and away. We have enough problems with non-televised matches being on Fridays which are almost impossible to get to due to the unpredictable M62/other roads (not just the M62 corridor) and time off work.

As for people quoting football fans travelling around Europe, money and attendance wise that is a very different league to RL. The European matches are televised and clubs have 30/40,000 plus regular attendances as opposed to our big clubs getting around 10k.

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I see Toronto are up in arms because they can not play 3 games on the trot in England they have to play 1 home 1 away like every body else they are blaming the super league teams from trying to stop them getting promoted

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[quote:18jc6kzm]I wish everyone would read bramleyrhino's post two or three times just to get it through some thick skulls[/quote:18jc6kzm] [quote:18jc6kzm]Mr bramleyrhino speaks a lot of sense.[/quote:18jc6kzm] [quote="Jamie Jones-Buchanan":18jc6kzm]"I'd never forgive myself if a child of mine was born in Lancashire.[/quote:18jc6kzm]:1506.jpg



Quote: wildshot "Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was on the understanding (that at least a few years ago and maybe even now) the RFL funded British clubs' flights to Catalans.'"


That has never been the case for SL clubs.

The RFL did have a "pool" where SL clubs paid an equal amount to cover the costs of traveling to France, meaning that it was fairer for those clubs that either played in France twice, or for clubs who had to travel during expensive travel periods (school holidays for example), but the RFL have never funded travel for SL clubs (and rightly so).

I don't think that pool exists anymore - too many clubs opted out to make their own arrangements (I know that Leeds historically charters its own plane and sells it as a "corporate trip" to cover the cost of flying the players out).

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Historically clubs have never received the money they do now from TV or have the opportunity they have to gain significant sponsorship.

If a Superleague club cannot afford to fund 1 trip to Toronto then they shouldn’t be in Superleague.

Catalan have to travel away multiple times in a season and pay the costs so no other club can moan about paying for 1 trip to Toronto

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Quote: puroresu_boy "If a Superleague club cannot afford to fund 1 trip to Toronto then they shouldn’t be in Superleague.'"


This x10!

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Quote: Call Me God "The majority of threads on the front page of the VT are those started by fans of Wakey or Leigh or other smaller clubs bemoaning expansion, be that because of the red herring that is away fans not traveling or travelling to Toronto being an expense. Leigh look like they have gone boom or bust, wakefield are living hand to moth, Salford and Widnes are on the brink and I'm the bad guy?

I don't trust Toronto, but the arguments being used to "dis' them just hold no water, but what fans of clubs lie wakey will never admit is that without their annual £1,800,000 hand out, they'd be dead an buried and that's why they are scared of Toronto, not because they'd miss out on £10 of away fan ticket revenue'"

Even if it wasn't intentional, there's something quite poetic about that imagery.

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