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[quote:18jc6kzm]I wish everyone would read bramleyrhino's post two or three times just to get it through some thick skulls[/quote:18jc6kzm] [quote:18jc6kzm]Mr bramleyrhino speaks a lot of sense.[/quote:18jc6kzm] [quote="Jamie Jones-Buchanan":18jc6kzm]"I'd never forgive myself if a child of mine was born in Lancashire.[/quote:18jc6kzm]:1506.jpg



Quote: Call Me God "In a nutshell...THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Unfortunately for us, the problem now is that we've been overtaken by Union in terms of viewers and darts and WWE pull in comparable viewing figures, so next time around we will need to negotiate harder and not just roll over........regardless of if the money is less or more, we need to demand more games, championship games, more FTA coverage and nationally at sensible times......and the clubs, not just the RFL/SL Board need to do more to get punters back through the gates.......
......alas, it'll be the top 12 dictating what's what and so long as they ring fence their 2 mill a year each they won't care about the rest.....'"


Haven't the last few TV deals been negotiated on behalf of the RFL by IMG? These guys aren't idiots by any stretch of the imagination.

In any case, I think it's wrong to assume that our TV deal is a result of the RFL "not negotiating hard enough" and I think that if we're going into negotiations for the new deal offering the same as what we have now, it's not going to end well. Sky know exactly what we bring to them in terms of monetary value, and the onus is on the sport to maximise that value.

Why would Sky pay more when the top talent is playing in another competition? Why would Sky pay more when we seem to be the only sport that seems to willingly dilute our own TV audience every Friday? Why would Sky pay more in a climate where new advertising technologies means that the advertising slots around RL content are going to become less valuable against other sports?

RL fans seem to like lazy answers and like "reserve teams" and "Eddie Hearn", the "The RFL doesn't negotiate hard enough with Sky" is another one. Broadcasters and sponsors expect more - and the sport needs to offer it.

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Quote: bramleyrhino "I've said on previous threads, but Sky know exactly what RL is worth to the business. They know how many people watch the sport, they know what advertising slots are worth, and they'll have a good idea of how many subscriptions depend on RL content. They're not going to offer us more money just because we want them to. The same goes for BT, the BBC, Premier, Amazon or anyone else who may be interested.

The sport needs to look at what it is offering broadcasters and commercial partners, and I really do think that in preparation for 2021, the sport needs to work hard on this.

We're one of the few sports in this country that dillutes its own TV audience. On Friday night, whilst Sky are televising Leeds vs Warrington, there are two other Super League fixtures - one at Wigan and one at Huddersfield. On some weeks, we have almost a full fixture list taking place during one of our two TV slots.

We miss opportunities for commercial partnerships because we don't sell on-pitch branding. That's a missed opportunity that makes us less attractive to sponsors and/or broadcasters.

And the product that we present needs to improve. Someone channel flicking and finding Widnes v Salford in front of 4k-ish people is just going to keep prodding the remote. We need to be offering broadcasters more events that generate that interest, and on on-field package that grabs the attention as soon as the viewer hits that remote. Is that more 'showpieces' like Magic Weekend or games at major football grounds? Is it more rep games? Is it a 7s / 9s comp to showcase our skill factor? Whatever it is, I don't think what we currently offer is working and I don't think Championship games are the answer either.

And at the risk of stirring up another debate entirely, we need to increase our appeal amongst new markets and demographics. There is nowhere in traditional RL land where rlaverage weekly wagesrl are higher than the national average (Leeds is the closest at £6 a week under the average). That might not sound massively relevant, but the spending power of the audience its something that potential sponsors pay attention to when they make their decisions on where to promote their product - and that feeds into the value of broadcast rights.

Someone mentioned splitting the rights into packages. That sounds like a good idea, but there is a risk that you dilute the product too much. We have one big showpiece when it comes to Super League and if I were Sky or BT, exclusivity of the Grand Final would be a red line if I were looking at investing in Super League.'"

Excellent point.

Premier League matches while the majority kick off at 15:00 they have ONE at 12:30, ONE at 17:30, then sometimes TWO at 13:30 on the Sunday and ONE at 16:00, then ONE on Monday night.

Almost all the televised games are at a time when no other games are being played! Other than the very few times a season there are midweek league fixtures.

Even the people who go to the 15:00 games get to watch the 12:30 and 17:30 ones in the pub before and after.

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[quote:18jc6kzm]I wish everyone would read bramleyrhino's post two or three times just to get it through some thick skulls[/quote:18jc6kzm] [quote:18jc6kzm]Mr bramleyrhino speaks a lot of sense.[/quote:18jc6kzm] [quote="Jamie Jones-Buchanan":18jc6kzm]"I'd never forgive myself if a child of mine was born in Lancashire.[/quote:18jc6kzm]:1506.jpg



Quote: Psychedelic Casual "Excellent point.

Premier League matches while the majority kick off at 15

For the two weeks after Magic Weekend, we have three games going head-to-head with what is arguably our 'prime' TV slot:

FRI 25 MAY:
Warrington v Hull 19:45 SKY
Widnes v Wakefield 20:00
Salford v Huddersfield 20:00
Hull KR v Wigan 20:00

FRI 8 JUN
Warrington v Castleford 19:45 SKY
Leeds v Huddersfield 19:45
Hull FC v Salford 19:45
St Helens v Hull KR 20:00

It's absolute lunacy.

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Quote: bramleyrhino "For the two weeks after Magic Weekend, we have three games going head-to-head with what is arguably our 'prime' TV slot

When you see it on paper it's absolute madness

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Quote: bramleyrhino "For the two weeks after Magic Weekend, we have three games going head-to-head with what is arguably our 'prime' TV slot

Agree its crazy. Also how hard is it to standardise the kickoff times as well? When you check latest scores you have to remind yourself to check how long each game has been going.

One reason given for wanting to play Fridays is to maintain a weeks rest before playing the bigger teams (who generally play fridays) surely if SL bans games that are on at the same time as TV games, then teams will adjust to playing Saturdays and Sundays.

The other reason is corporates prefer Friday nights but im not even sure that is such a major factor in the post economic crash era. Hull staged last weeks game on a Saturday night instead of Friday night and a combination of good marketing, good weather and a bank holiday gave the highest crowd of the season.

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[quote:18jc6kzm]I wish everyone would read bramleyrhino's post two or three times just to get it through some thick skulls[/quote:18jc6kzm] [quote:18jc6kzm]Mr bramleyrhino speaks a lot of sense.[/quote:18jc6kzm] [quote="Jamie Jones-Buchanan":18jc6kzm]"I'd never forgive myself if a child of mine was born in Lancashire.[/quote:18jc6kzm]:1506.jpg



Quote: UllFC "Agree its crazy. Also how hard is it to standardise the kickoff times as well? When you check latest scores you have to remind yourself to check how long each game has been going.

One reason given for wanting to play Fridays is to maintain a weeks rest before playing the bigger teams (who generally play fridays) surely if SL bans games that are on at the same time as TV games, then teams will adjust to playing Saturdays and Sundays.

The other reason is corporates prefer Friday nights but im not even sure that is such a major factor in the post economic crash era. Hull staged last weeks game on a Saturday night instead of Friday night and a combination of good marketing, good weather and a bank holiday gave the highest crowd of the season.'"


You can easily preserve a decent rest period and 'block out' TV nights from the rest of the fixture list. A Sun-Thurs turnaround might be tough on teams, but you can compensate this in the following week. In an ideal world, we'd also have fewer fixtures, so you can mitigate the impact on player welfare by reducing the total number of games.

The "its easier to sell corporates" is a long-standing reasoning and I can believe it, but I don't think the benefits of that outweigh the potential devaluation of the broadcast contract by diluting our TV audience.

The other factor that comes into play is ground sharing arrangements. We all know that certain clubs (looking at you Wigan) are a pain in the when it comes to their ground arrangements, but should we be allowing clubs that have negotiated and entered into inflexible arrangements with their landlord to devalue the TV deal for the rest of the sport? I would argue not.

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On the TV deal, I'd love to see us strike a deal where at least 1 game per week is on terrestrial free to air.
Sure it would impact on the total TV deal earnings, but longer term, that free to air national coverage could have a huge impact on our ability to secure top end sponsorships at whole of game, individual club level and player personal sponsorship.
Imagine if there was a game live on BBC every Sunday afternoon for instance - what other sport is ever on terrestrial tv? Hardly any nowadays - I could see it really taking off.
Also agree with the point on playing all our games when there is a match on TV, it's madness.

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Quote: Superted "On the TV deal, I'd love to see us strike a deal where at least 1 game per week is on terrestrial free to air.
Sure it would impact on the total TV deal earnings, but longer term, that free to air national coverage could have a huge impact on our ability to secure top end sponsorships at whole of game, individual club level and player personal sponsorship.
Imagine if there was a game live on BBC every Sunday afternoon for instance - what other sport is ever on terrestrial tv? Hardly any nowadays - I could see it really taking off.
Also agree with the point on playing all our games when there is a match on TV, it's madness.'"


I know people wanna see some live coverage on FTA TV but we can't just give games away. It's up to FTA networks to put up the money and try and negotiate with sky to get a deal.

Giving away sports right cheaply is not the answer.

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JESUS WEPT :WALL: HOW MANY TIMES????? £20 a ticket and £15 on beer and merchandise.....so an away fan is worth £35. At best, 1,000 is the average away support split across 11 rounds and I am being really generous here, so Toronto, replacing say Wakefield will cost a SL club £35,000. The minimum turnover of a SL club is £4,000,000 so Toronto instead of Widnes is worth less than 1% of a SL clubs turnover. There are many valid reasons for and against expansion into America, but "AWAY FANS" isn't one of them. :BEAT::d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_76030.jpg



Quote: kobashi "

Giving away sports right cheaply is not the answer.'"

Are there any details of the BT/C5 deal with the Aviva? I have read that the 4 year deal to show 5 games a year is only worth £1,000,000? Surely that is very cheap? I now read that Chanel 4 will show live European Cup Rugby from next year......so yet again, we go from being the only domestic Rugby Comp on FTA in terms of the Challenge Cup, to probably having fewer games than Union next year.
I can't see BT saying to themselves, "let's give some stuff away cheap" rather I can see the IRB/RFU saying "as part of the rights deal, you will get us on Terrestrial FTA channels too........
........it works for many products to give stuff away and once it becomes popular you can charge for it, but we've already sold our game in its entirety to SKY!

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Quote: kobashi "I know people wanna see some live coverage on FTA TV but we can't just give games away. It's up to FTA networks to put up the money and try and negotiate with sky to get a deal.

Giving away sports right cheaply is not the answer.'"


Surely some free to air is needed to try and attract more interest? You only have to see the reactions after some of the BBC's sadly rare coverage to see that there are many who are surprised at the quality of the sport!

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Quote: trevork6152 "Surely some free to air is needed to try and attract more interest? You only have to see the reactions after some of the BBC's sadly rare coverage to see that there are many who are surprised at the quality of the sport!'"


The sport needs to use it's own devices that are not covered contractually via Sky. Streaming is obviously not covered.

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Here in Australia the lack of FTA coverage of RU has been a disaster for the sport. They sold everything except internationals to Fox (Sky here) and now the general awareness of RU is close to zero away from hard core fans. The local basketball competition (NBL) made the same mistake about 20 years ago by selling everything to Fox. Its now back on FTA and the awareness levels around the sport have rapidly risen.

WRT to SL, I'd say it's definitely be worth losing some headline income from Sky to get more covereage FTA. In the end it also pays for Sky, as if general awareness rises so will the value of the product.

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JESUS WEPT :WALL: HOW MANY TIMES????? £20 a ticket and £15 on beer and merchandise.....so an away fan is worth £35. At best, 1,000 is the average away support split across 11 rounds and I am being really generous here, so Toronto, replacing say Wakefield will cost a SL club £35,000. The minimum turnover of a SL club is £4,000,000 so Toronto instead of Widnes is worth less than 1% of a SL clubs turnover. There are many valid reasons for and against expansion into America, but "AWAY FANS" isn't one of them. :BEAT::d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_76030.jpg



Quote: BrisbaneRhino " In the end it also pays for Sky, as if general awareness rises so will the value of the product.'"

THIS

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Quote: BrisbaneRhino "Here in Australia the lack of FTA coverage of RU has been a disaster for the sport. They sold everything except internationals to Fox (Sky here) and now the general awareness of RU is close to zero away from hard core fans. The local basketball competition (NBL) made the same mistake about 20 years ago by selling everything to Fox. Its now back on FTA and the awareness levels around the sport have rapidly risen.

WRT to SL, I'd say it's definitely be worth losing some headline income from Sky to get more covereage FTA. In the end it also pays for Sky, as if general awareness rises so will the value of the product.'"


Exactly... and we don't have to give the FTA game away, simply stipulate that 1 game must be on terrestrial, and then let that go to the highest bidder. Sky will no doubt reduce their offer for another 2 or 3 games per week, and overall I'm sure the TV deal will initially drop, but it's short term pain for long term gain. Using digital better would also help make up the shortfall.

Ultimately, we need more people watching the game to broaden our appeal to sponsors/advertisers. In terms of a TV deal helping this, FTA coverage seems the most obvious answer to me.

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JESUS WEPT :WALL: HOW MANY TIMES????? £20 a ticket and £15 on beer and merchandise.....so an away fan is worth £35. At best, 1,000 is the average away support split across 11 rounds and I am being really generous here, so Toronto, replacing say Wakefield will cost a SL club £35,000. The minimum turnover of a SL club is £4,000,000 so Toronto instead of Widnes is worth less than 1% of a SL clubs turnover. There are many valid reasons for and against expansion into America, but "AWAY FANS" isn't one of them. :BEAT::d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_76030.jpg



Quote: Superted "Exactly... and we don't have to give the FTA game away, simply stipulate that 1 game must be on terrestrial, and then let that go to the highest bidder. Sky will no doubt reduce their offer for another 2 or 3 games per week, and overall I'm sure the TV deal will initially drop, but it's short term pain for long term gain. Using digital better would also help make up the shortfall.

Ultimately, we need more people watching the game to broaden our appeal to sponsors/advertisers. In terms of a TV deal helping this, FTA coverage seems the most obvious answer to me.'"


It's not just sponsors and advertisers, it's fans paying on the gate too.........Let's face it, we're pretty limited when it comes to attracting new fans to come to games, but get a Friday evening game Live on BBC, ITV or Channel 4 or 5 and they'll get a million + tuning in. Clever tactic would be for the RFL to run a competition during the broadcast and maybe a couple of adverts....same for SKY TV advertising their latest deal.......if people like it they'll start looking out for it.....

Quote: Superted "The sport needs to use it's own devices that are not covered contractually via Sky. Streaming is obviously not covered.'"

The cost of an outside broadcast set up is quite high. For a club to buy the equipment themselves would be insane......but to have the infrastructure put in place for an easy set up would be good....5 Cameras in set places and 2 Mobile units.......but it's still going to set you back £50,000 for the game....so you need subscribers in the thousands prepared to pay up front....and we now how free with their cash RL fans are icon_wink.gif

The NRL have the luxury of TV companies at every game, so on-selling that via NRL pass is simple......a mate of mine works in the OB business...a Premiership game runs to £105,000 a pop in OB costs......no club in SL could handle that.

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Castleford-Warrington
SL
20:00
Leeds-Catalans
Sat 24th Aug
SL
15:00
St.Helens-Hull KR
SL
14:00
Salford-Huddersfield
Sun 25th Aug
SL
15:00
LondonB-Leigh
Fri 2nd Aug
SL 20 Warrington4-22Hull KR
NRL 22 NZ Warriors20-30Parramatta
NRL 22 Dolphins34-40Sydney
Thu 1st Aug
SL 20 Castleford10-20Leigh
SL 20 Wigan26-14Huddersfield
NRL 22 Wests30-48NQL Cowboys
Sun 28th Jul
NRL 21 St.George10-46Penrith
NRL 21 Dolphins14-21Gold Coast
NRL 21 Canberra32-12Souths
CH 19 Batley16-22Halifax
CH 19 Doncaster37-30Barrow
CH 19 Sheffield78-24Whitehaven
CH 19 Wakefield46-18Featherstone
CH 19 Widnes25-6Bradford
CH 19 York34-4Swinton
L1 17 Newcastle34-44Cornwall
L1 17 Hunslet24-32Workington
L1 17 Keighley36-12Midlands
L1 17 Rochdale10-14Oldham
Sat 27th Jul
SL 19 Salford30-22Castleford
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Hull KR 20 503 259 244 30
Wigan 19 495 258 237 30
Warrington 20 502 267 235 28
Catalans 19 366 274 92 24
Salford 19 355 366 -11 24
St.Helens 19 455 256 199 22
 
Leeds 19 355 342 13 20
Leigh 19 392 286 106 19
Huddersfield 20 350 453 -103 14
Castleford 20 336 523 -187 13
Hull FC 19 268 566 -298 6
LondonB 19 198 725 -527 2
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 17 584 206 378 32
Sheffield 17 488 283 205 24
Toulouse 16 468 220 248 23
Widnes 17 410 307 103 21
Bradford 17 397 297 100 21
Doncaster 17 318 410 -92 17
 
York 18 428 345 83 16
Featherstone 17 440 359 81 16
Batley 17 284 366 -82 16
Swinton 17 342 422 -80 12
Halifax 17 318 459 -141 12
Barrow 16 255 458 -203 12
Whitehaven 17 336 556 -220 12
Dewsbury 18 224 560 -336 2
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