Exactly. I could tell you every GF Saints won. But I actually had to google to find out when we'd finished top of the league. Bluntly, it doesn't matter. Only the GF does.

The only reason people don't think winning the league matters is because the RFL made finishing top worthless for so long they made it that way, and then when they did try to make it mean something that got the crappest, cheapest "shield" they could find.

If they want finishing top of the league to matter, firstly they need to get the old 1st division championship trophy back (from Wigan?) and present that to whoever finishes top of the league as the Super League Championship/Premiership and then the Grand Final is a separate end of season tournament for the best 4.

Actually first past the post with promotion & relegation lasted 22 years 1973 to 1995, prior to 72 you had a play off. Dewsbury the last side to do it.

The league leader's trophy is sadly undervalued, it is the best reflection of who has been the best side throughout year. Its not 100% perfect because that infernal extra fixture at the Magic weekend unbalances the fixture list but even then it deserves respect. The Grand Final winners are the team playing best at the end of the season only and there are more than a few times when you can't honestly say that the winners were the best team that season. The Leeds teams winning from 5th spring to mind - yes they won their play off games fair & square but the best team all year? I think not. Even last season a grindingly boring and nasty Wigan side who finished with a paltry +109 points difference got it right for 2 games to win it. Were they really the best last year? Some years with a tough draw the Challenge Cup can be harder to win (and some years not) but you rarely hear about the Cup winners being talked about as the best - and with good reason.

Anyway congrats to Cas, I respect what they have achieved.

The LLS isnt undervalued. Its just not that important.

To be Rugby League champions you have to be consistent enough to get in to the play-offs, have enough quality to win the play-off games, and good enough to under the bright lights, with the crowd baying, in the title fight. Thats how you champions are forged.

I wouldn't disagree that the LLS has been undervalued to a degree, but everyone knows how the Champions are determined before a ball is kicked. Whilst the playoffs have flaws, the Grand Final is by far the biggest event in domestic RL, and is a great occasion to end the season. It really makes sure the season goes to the last day.

If the LLS was the be all and end all the season would sometimes be over weeks before the end. In the days pre SL and summer rugby it didn't matter quite as much because the CC Final kept interest up, but plenty of clubs used to coast to the end of the season once they were out of the CC and knew they weren't going to win the competition or get relegated. In fact the lack of effort from those mid table teams could affect the end of season table, so how valid is a table based competition even then?

To be fair the LLS will mean more to Cas than it would to ,say Leeds or Wigan because they aren't usually in the mix up for the silverware. I don't recall Wigan fans being too distraught when the helicopter turned round a couple of years back. I'm sure they were more distraught after the GF. However, we shouldn't diminish Cas' achievement in the eyes of their own players and fans. They've been a joy to watch even when spanking us. They just don't want to put the cue on the rack like Huddersfield appeared to do in 2013 and not even reach the GF. I think it's just DP being coy and trying to take pressure off his players. I still expect them to be at OT in October.

I think I'm one of the few Cas fans who respects the grand final and think it should be kept.

It's all very well being clear of 2nd place and saying that's that and we should be the rightful winners of the league. But I heard few if any similar protests from fellow Castleford fans in previous seasons when we finished in the playoffs but were way behind the leaders. Likewise, when we failed to win the 2014 shield in the final regular match following the collapse at Catalans, many fans consoled themselves with knowing we had the playoffs to try for the grand final. I'll ask the question in future seasons when we don't finish 1st and see if we still think the winners should be the team who finish top.

The playoff format needs changing to make it more exciting (1st has 2 chances to get to OT, 5th needs to win sudden death matches), but getting rid of one of the showpiece occasions which is regularly attended by 65-75K isn't the answer.

Anyhow, looking forward to tonight and if we finish the season with just the 'hubcap' I'll be disappointed but not gutted - I've seen us humiliated and knocked out of the cup by Barrow, seen us play at Widnes on a Thursday when we took just 37 supporters, seen us relegated twice so this is a hell of a contrast.

Fully agree with this - top 5 it should be, not only to give more benefit to the LLS winner and make it more valuable to achieve but it also makes S8's more interesting to the end.

week 1 - 4th v 5th loser eliminated

week 2 -game 1 - 1st v 2nd winner to GF game 2 - 3rd V winner of week 1

week 3 - loser Game 1 v winner game 2

week 4 - GF

I've been made redundant a couple of times. Literally.

Ah course, I've never thought of redundancy in the context of sport. Gold star for you.

“For me, it’s the biggest prize (finishing top) without a doubt.”

Wake up Daryl

Do the winners of the LLS now get a place in the WCC at the end of the year as well?
So we're looking at a trophy, £100k and a place in an elite tournament. Not too bad I would say? Certainly nothing to be sniffed at.

Predictable mean-spirited bilge from fans of so called bigger clubs who although claim to be pleased for Cas they're actually a little mad that the days of giving clubs like Wakey & Cas a patronising pat on the head appear to be over.

Indeed

100k

A guaranteed home semi

A guaranteed WCC place

Silverware

Not bad for little old Cas who a decade ago were in the 2nd tier looking forward to Rochdale away.